There is absolutely no reason to ponder the value of anything until the hour that you're selling. That's the ONLY time it matters.
QUOTE (bsim @ Oct 8 2008, 10:25 PM) 
There is absolutely no reason to ponder the value of anything until the hour that you're selling. That's the ONLY time it matters.
Brad, will you PLEASE stop interjecting logic in this dialogue.
We are discussing finance, stock market and market values.
Logic has no place here.
Don't make me ban you.
QUOTE (98_1LE)
I believe the money I yanked from my brokerage account 2 weeks ago and bought an M3 with is better invested now than then.
Now that's a proper use of funds.
Howdy,
I'm no expert either ...
But I thought they were just taken out of play ... in other words, you were getting no dividend or growth from them.
How could they do that, without converting the shares to money / selling them? The shares can't just sit there, but not gain (or lose) value... Their value is set by other stuff.
Beats me how it works. I'd love for someone who actually knows how it all goes together to explain it.
Mark
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Oct 8 2008, 04:05 PM)
QUOTE (marka @ Oct 8 2008, 08:58 AM)
Taking a loan against your 401k turns your current shares into money... I.e. they sell them, and you actually realize the paper loss they're showing you.
Mark
Mark
I'm no expert either ...
But I thought they were just taken out of play ... in other words, you were getting no dividend or growth from them.
How could they do that, without converting the shares to money / selling them? The shares can't just sit there, but not gain (or lose) value... Their value is set by other stuff.
Beats me how it works. I'd love for someone who actually knows how it all goes together to explain it.
Mark
Oops, sorry Mitch. I gets b!tched at at work for logical thinking too.
Anyone take a look at the market today .
.......I should have taken Chuck's approach and purchased a used car
.......I should have taken Chuck's approach and purchased a used car
I really screwed up. Even though the 1999 Miata Sport I bought earlier this year was clean with relatively few miles, I didn't sell nearly enough stock to buy it. 
Pete's rules for investing:
- If you need the money in the next two years it shouldn't be in the stock market. This is the same reason you shouldn't track a car you can't afford to total.
- Never try to time the market (One exception: If you were prescient enough to sell airline stocks short on Sept 10, 2001, then time away baby)
- Diversify
- Diversify some more
- Don't listen to anybody's advice on investing, especially mine
Brad's investing advice = Do the OPPOSITE of everyone else.
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
QUOTE (bsim @ Oct 9 2008, 08:13 PM)
Brad's investing advice = Do the OPPOSITE of everyone else.
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
The coin shop in my nearby town has had a run on people buying gold now. Silly peeps!
Oh, I am buying a little stock now, as I can, and the 401K contributions are maxed out. I'm contemplating Ramen noodles, Ebay, and a reduced competition budget to free up more cash for investment.
I hope nobody here owns much GM stock, though I suspect many of us have some exposure through the 401K funds.
I hope nobody here owns much GM stock, though I suspect many of us have some exposure through the 401K funds.
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Oct 9 2008, 06:39 PM)
Oh, I am buying a little stock now, as I can, and the 401K contributions are maxed out. I'm contemplating Ramen noodles, Ebay, and a reduced competition budget to free up more cash for investment.
I hope nobody here owns much GM stock, though I suspect many of us have some exposure through the 401K funds.
I hope nobody here owns much GM stock, though I suspect many of us have some exposure through the 401K funds.
GM may not survive - heard today that one in three car loans in Indiana were turned down. If that keeps up, it will at a minimum cripple Detroit. Car dealers are closing all around the country - approximately 600 will close is what I heard.
My brother lives and works in Iceland, at least until it is no longer Iceland. His business is still surviving, but he doesn't know for how much longer. All three banks there were nationalized and the hemorraging is still going on.
Gm stock was and $4.xx /share and Ford stock was at $2.xx/share
Geez!
And new car sales were off 40%?
Geez!
And new car sales were off 40%?
QUOTE (NJSPEEDER @ Oct 6 2008, 05:41 PM)
My view of the situation is simple, unless you are with in 5 years of your retirement age, this market drop is a good thing.
Yes, it sucks in the short term and we are going to have a nice chunk of stagflation to deal with. The flip side is that the stocks you need to invest for retirement, those core companies that are not going out of business regardless of the economy, are all on sale right now. The average blue chipper is down nearly 10%, the dollar is gaining strength against the rest of the world in leaps and bounds, and every investment house on the planet is tripping over itself to get you to trade through them for less and less per transaction.
The current economy has it's downside, but it is all short term(2-3 years) With the bail out, the economy is going to be priming itself once for a big come back as soon as the banks get done buying each other(that will last another year or so).
The moral of the story, if you have a few extra pennies around, your investment strategy should be BUY BUY BUY.
-Tim
Yes, it sucks in the short term and we are going to have a nice chunk of stagflation to deal with. The flip side is that the stocks you need to invest for retirement, those core companies that are not going out of business regardless of the economy, are all on sale right now. The average blue chipper is down nearly 10%, the dollar is gaining strength against the rest of the world in leaps and bounds, and every investment house on the planet is tripping over itself to get you to trade through them for less and less per transaction.
The current economy has it's downside, but it is all short term(2-3 years) With the bail out, the economy is going to be priming itself once for a big come back as soon as the banks get done buying each other(that will last another year or so).
The moral of the story, if you have a few extra pennies around, your investment strategy should be BUY BUY BUY.
-Tim
Tim,
Good advice. You can't predict things like this and when they do happen you have to deal with it. The guys who make all the money here are the ones who buy at the bottom of fallouts like this.
QUOTE (bsim)
Brad's investing advice = Do the OPPOSITE of everyone else.
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
Stocks are down = sell gold, buy stocks.
Stocks are up = sell stocks, buy gold.
Remember that old saying about buying low and selling high?
Bret
QUOTE (SStrokerAce @ Oct 10 2008, 08:55 AM)
Tim,
Good advice. You can't predict things like this and when they do happen you have to deal with it. The guys who make all the money here are the ones who buy at the bottom of fallouts like this.
Good advice. You can't predict things like this and when they do happen you have to deal with it. The guys who make all the money here are the ones who buy at the bottom of fallouts like this.
Can't argue with buying low and selling high. Sound, sound advice.
Too bad no one has any money to buy any thing with.
Well, right now the most of the Asian/Australian markets are looking good so far, as are the US market futures. I just hope it holds up until tomorrow morning. At the moment, it's not going to make up the loss anytime soon. I'm just hoping it comes up a little and stabilizes enough to reduce the panic and vicious-circle freefall.
By "stabilize", I mean back to up a month's pay one day, down a month's pay the next, instead of down a month's pay, then down a months pay, then down a months pay, and so on.
By "stabilize", I mean back to up a month's pay one day, down a month's pay the next, instead of down a month's pay, then down a months pay, then down a months pay, and so on.
LOL ....
while I'm sure things will continue getting worse over the next 12 months or so it's probably the best time to buy. things won't get "much worse" and even if you buy in the safe companies, Altria Group, Anheuser-Bush, Colgate-Palmolive, H.J. Heinz, Johnson & Johnson
Procter & Gamble etc you are going to come out ahead in the long term. I figure 5 yrs or so.
If you want to get more risky there are other companies. But time has proved the preceding companies to be safe.
Nothing is secure, even with my NYC pension I know I can't retire with it and I invest in a 457 and a private account while trying to keep a side business a bit profitable as opposed to breaking even. My success is marginal at best.
Procter & Gamble etc you are going to come out ahead in the long term. I figure 5 yrs or so.
If you want to get more risky there are other companies. But time has proved the preceding companies to be safe.
Nothing is secure, even with my NYC pension I know I can't retire with it and I invest in a 457 and a private account while trying to keep a side business a bit profitable as opposed to breaking even. My success is marginal at best.
I agree it's a good time to buy (well, maybe not this morning ), but as Mitch said many of us aren't just sitting on a big pile of cash to plow in.
For anyone who is already retired and depending on selling for current income (though hopefully interest and dividends help reduce that need), anything but up fast is going to hurt. For anyone still employed, it would be nice if stocks just went sideways for a while. More paychecks have to come in before more can be invested
Of course, the ideal would be if the market spikes up the day of my layoff, whenever that may be
), but as Mitch said many of us aren't just sitting on a big pile of cash to plow in.For anyone who is already retired and depending on selling for current income (though hopefully interest and dividends help reduce that need), anything but up fast is going to hurt. For anyone still employed, it would be nice if stocks just went sideways for a while. More paychecks have to come in before more can be invested
Of course, the ideal would be if the market spikes up the day of my layoff, whenever that may be
Did today help??
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
I need some Maalox ....
QUOTE (SStrokerAce @ Oct 13 2008, 04:13 PM)
Did today help??
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
Wild swings in the market (up or down) are not good. The market had massive swings up and down in 1929 before finally crashing in October. We won't know we are out of the downturn for at least 2 quarters.
QUOTE (pknowles @ Oct 13 2008, 05:05 PM)
QUOTE (SStrokerAce @ Oct 13 2008, 04:13 PM)
Did today help??
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
Friday had all the signs of the bottom... only thing I can say is thank god I'm still not a broker, this would have been a tough few weeks of telling people that it will come back. Friday had a huge swing before close, in 9 hours of trading the DOW moved 17% up! When you sell at the bottom you never have a chance to get back in time for the swing back... this is exactly why even though it might look bad it's a short term deal. Even now with the S&P @ 1000, it's most likely going to be a good 2 year ride upwards. Go back and look at the S&P 500 from 1987 till 1990, same thing happened back then. Remember a year ago the S&P was at 1560! US stock sure look like the place to be for the next two years on a valuation standpoint...
Wild swings in the market (up or down) are not good. The market had massive swings up and down in 1929 before finally crashing in October. We won't know we are out of the downturn for at least 2 quarters.
Actually the wild swings are one of the technical indicators of a bottom. The problem is the whole market is more volitle than it was years ago... thank hedge funds, day traders & instant information for that.
Considering today was in the top 5 percentage gains of all time in the S&P, the largest gain on the DOW in terms of points and the largest percentage move in the market in 76 years it's saying something.
Then again I don't much about all this, just studied this in college for one of my minors, worked on Wall street (in the WTC) and held all the licencses for doing it for a living.... but over here everybody is a expert on everything.
Bret
QUOTE (SStrokerAce @ Oct 13 2008, 09:25 PM)
but over here everybody is a expert on everything
Nah, we're all just crying in our Maalox together
<burp>
QUOTE (trackbird @ Oct 6 2008, 08:32 PM)
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Oct 6 2008, 06:05 PM)
Damn this single story home ... no windows to jump out of. 
You can try it, if you're lucky you might twist an ankle.
Yea, I'm wanting out of here too and I'm stuck in a job I now hate with a house I can't give away. Guess that's life. I've actually been back thinking about selling the Camaro (again), this time it would come with an Alan Blaine cage kit (unless it gets here and I get it installed soon). I'm feeling the urge for a change, not sure when and where, but I'm thinking it may involve a new job and a new city. Of course the job market sucks right now too....
canadian market is good... problem is selling your house.
QUOTE (SStrokerAce @ Oct 13 2008, 10:25 PM)
Actually the wild swings are one of the technical indicators of a bottom. The problem is the whole market is more volitle than it was years ago... thank hedge funds, day traders & instant information for that.
Considering today was in the top 5 percentage gains of all time in the S&P, the largest gain on the DOW in terms of points and the largest percentage move in the market in 76 years it's saying something.
Then again I don't much about all this, just studied this in college for one of my minors, worked on Wall street (in the WTC) and held all the licencses for doing it for a living.... but over here everybody is a expert on everything.
Bret
Considering today was in the top 5 percentage gains of all time in the S&P, the largest gain on the DOW in terms of points and the largest percentage move in the market in 76 years it's saying something.
Then again I don't much about all this, just studied this in college for one of my minors, worked on Wall street (in the WTC) and held all the licencses for doing it for a living.... but over here everybody is a expert on everything.
Bret
Most of the time big swings happen at the extremes either before a crash or before a significant gain. Defiantly historical examples of both. What really messes up indicators is government intervention artificially inflating the market for the time being.
QUOTE (pknowles @ Oct 14 2008, 10:45 AM)
What really messes up indicators is government intervention artificially inflating the market for the time being.
<swig>
QUOTE (pknowles @ Oct 14 2008, 10:45 AM)
Defiantly historical examples of both.
That may not have been what you meant, but I like it!
Mitch,
Find happiness in the fact you have your health, family, and are still employed.
This is coming from someone who had to kill a dream due to health issues.
I still have my family and I still have my job, and the business still makes a sale here and there.
Find happiness in the fact you have your health, family, and are still employed.
This is coming from someone who had to kill a dream due to health issues.
I still have my family and I still have my job, and the business still makes a sale here and there.
Hey all!
Yep, still around!
.
I take a hard line on this and call it an adjustment. Way too many people were fat and happy and oblivious to the fact you can't live on credit and paycheck to paycheck. We (myself included) thought the train was gonna run forever and now it is running backwards. The people going through foreclosure and repossession etc etc were playing it too close to start with and they got caught up; I hate it for them but the rebound will see the economy on an upcycle for years to come.
Right now for me? My 401k was 'gone' in '01 when I bailed out of Corporate America. I won't be going back. Everything since then has been invested in real estate with the idea NOTHING will be sold sooner than 10 years. One of the things I saw coming was the logistic stupidity of suburban sprawl. You can't frickin' commute 60 miles a day! I bought several urban rentals and the demand for this type of housing is exponentially astronomic. Cash poor and asset rich -- I like it that way.
I thought I would never be able to get off the corporate hamster wheel. Mortgages, car payments, braces, college, health insurance-- Christ! How could a person ever, ever afford to bail out and survive?
I felt like the guy in solitary confinement with one itty bitty window way up high where he could see a postage stamp patch of blue sky.
Most of you on the list are younger than me at a looming 53 years old, I am tellin' you right now there is more to life than being a company bitch. Those that expound on the importance of family, faith and health have it right, that is all that matters
Yep, still around!
. I take a hard line on this and call it an adjustment. Way too many people were fat and happy and oblivious to the fact you can't live on credit and paycheck to paycheck. We (myself included) thought the train was gonna run forever and now it is running backwards. The people going through foreclosure and repossession etc etc were playing it too close to start with and they got caught up; I hate it for them but the rebound will see the economy on an upcycle for years to come.
Right now for me? My 401k was 'gone' in '01 when I bailed out of Corporate America. I won't be going back. Everything since then has been invested in real estate with the idea NOTHING will be sold sooner than 10 years. One of the things I saw coming was the logistic stupidity of suburban sprawl. You can't frickin' commute 60 miles a day! I bought several urban rentals and the demand for this type of housing is exponentially astronomic. Cash poor and asset rich -- I like it that way.
I thought I would never be able to get off the corporate hamster wheel. Mortgages, car payments, braces, college, health insurance-- Christ! How could a person ever, ever afford to bail out and survive?
I felt like the guy in solitary confinement with one itty bitty window way up high where he could see a postage stamp patch of blue sky.Most of you on the list are younger than me at a looming 53 years old, I am tellin' you right now there is more to life than being a company bitch. Those that expound on the importance of family, faith and health have it right, that is all that matters
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