Car's can be replaced ... you did good by focusing on what's important first and then adding the go-fast stuff. Too many get that evolution reversed.

As far as the damage is concerned ... Holy Crap!

Well, it can be considered a performance item, especially the way a cage, even a simple one, can really stiffen up the chassis so everything works as it should.

Yeah...I always went safety first. Even running the car near stock the first year...man was that bad...hehe. It certainly paid off in the end.

Now, I really don't feel so bad about building "cage-zilla" in my car. Overkill is almost enough...

How's the vision coming along Randy?

What that is one destroyed car. Sure glad that you are doing better though.

Yeah, Cagezilla, as long as well planned and not just adding bars for the feeling of "more bars is better" is ALWAYS a good idea!

I can tell you the things I KNOW saved me were:

1. An AWESOME cage
2. The head restraint seat ( I was buffetted around in EVERY direction)
3. My new helmet and sliding HANS tethers...I had the quick release teathers before, and upon switching my head moved forward ONLY an inch or so when testing it...I could touch my helmet to my chest with the old quick release tethers.
4. The AMAZING SCCA Emergency crew.

My vision is still getting better a micron each day. I can see stuff each day that I could not the day before...but it is frustrating....improvments are small, and I still cannot drive myself around. Soon...hopefully soon!

What matters most is you're ok and the safety equipment did its job. Glue yourself back together, and when you're ready to have at it again I'll kick $500 toward your new car to get it rolling.

More hopes/wishes/prayers for a full and speedy recovery.

Anything you can share about cage, seat mounting, belt mounting, etc. is certainly appreciated.

Sucks that somebody had to field test that stuff.

I will try and get more pics with the seat situation later. The rear mount of the RaceTech WTHR seat did break. It was a custom formed aluminum piece that was aircraft riveted between the seat holes and the cage mounts. The aircraft rivets failed. However, if you see the floor of the car it was moving in all sorts of directions and since the seat was mounted to welded brackets on the floor, the seat moved with the floor. If you see the one pic you can see the seat is tilted out the door. My arm knocked the upper window net bar as well and bent it enough to allow it to come out....my arm flailing away outside the car the whole time. The belts performed perfect. I ran the lap belts through the stock holes that were gusseted by the factory and put big washers under the car as well. The sub belt was through a square tube for the seat mount and also had large plate washers under the car. The shoulder belts tied to brackets on the roll cage behind the seat. All were in perfect shape. The cage I would be happy to answer any questions, you can see the build pics on my website in my signature. I had NASCAR door bars and a triangulated point in the center of the car with a tube running up to the passenger A pillar which I think prevented the roof squashing on that side.

I'd like to see how the floor pan held up around where the cage attaches.

1 day at a time!

Thanks for the feedback here Randy, we are all learning from this. I'm not sure if you will be able to answer these questions or not, but if you can:


Was this due to contact with anything but your seat, belts, and HANS?


Seems like I read concussion somewhere, I assume this is why you are having trouble seeing. Did your helmet make contact with tubing?


I have a (expired) FIA seat in my car and have often wondered what is best. Technically I should add a back brace since it is expired. I've wondered what happens to the seat and the guy sitting in it when the floor moves relative to the cage - the seat is held most securely to the floor, the harness spans between the cage and the floor, and the driver is in between.


You were very lucky to end up alive after this accident so that says a lot about your safety gear. Having said that, is there anything that you would do different or improve? What type of latch did you have on your window net?




I'm with you Mitch, CMC rules should allow more in^2 of ties between cage and chassis.

1. My broken shoulder (scapula and clavical) came from the HANS. It broke right where the relatively hard HANS was strapped tight to my shoulder. The force of the belts on the HANS and then on my shoulder did it. So, the HANS saved my life but broke my shoulder....fair trade. The ribs were from the side of the seat I am sure. I had hard hits in all directions.

2. I don't think I had a concussion. My helmet has just a few scratches on it and does not look to have hit anything. The vision problem are from vascular blockage/issues in the retina. Basically from blunt force trauma. I was shoved against the seat belts so hard and forcefully, I popped a lot of vessesl in my eyes...see red eye photos and the back of the eyes. They found me, face deep purple and eyes were black. They said the G Force pressure pushed the blood around in bad places in my body.

3. I would talk to some "experts" on the seat, but for me, I would brace the back of the seat. If I build another unibody car, one thing I WILL BE DOING is to minimize attaching the seat to the floor. My floor buckled and moved all over the place. The torque arm/rear end tried REAL HARD to get in. This caused my seat that was well anchored to move to the left and lean me out the door a bit. I would build a frame and anchor it to the floor much better...sort of like sub frame connectors for the seat...if I had a car like that again. Floor movement was a big problem for my seat in the crash.

I will try and get some more pics today and share them. Thanks

Different wisdoms prevail on seat mounting

Mount to the cage, more G-forces hit you

Mount to the floor, risk buckling but get energy adsorbed

Here are some updated pics you have been requesting:
Drivers side front cage mount near footwell. Not a crack in the plate/floor/bars:

Drivers side rear cage mount...solid:

Passenger side front cage mount...no issues:

Passengers side rear cage mount. Also no signs of failure/stress:

Rear seat mount failure:

Massive floor buckling:

More floor buckling:

More floor:


Let me know what else you guys want to see.....trans will be out soon, then motor....then we must find a final resting place for her.

Randy, I think I'd probably just have it bronzed...

That cage did a perfect job, the rest of the damage is just unreal.

HEHE...yeah...most of the floor I believe is the rear end and torque arm trying to have their way with me. That and massive hits to the sides that moved stuff that should never be moved.

Oh...and I missed the question about the window net. I had a good system I believe. a rod at the top with a seat buckle latch and the rod stuffed back into a peice of tubing. Problem was that the amount of rod that was stuffed into the tubing... about an inch....was not enough to take the hit my arm sent to the rod itself. I bent the rod almost in a "U" and the rod popped out of the rear "mount". My arm was wailing as I then rammed it into the welded on "buckle" part of the seat belt and cut my arm on it....

those pictures are staggering. I don't think I've ever seen a car that twisted up that someone has survived. looks like you had all the right parts for the job.

When you end up with a car that thoroughly trashed how much, if any of it do you reuse (wiring,hoses,hose fittings etc)?

Very little I am afraid. Much of the wiring harness was smashed up between the engine and firewall. I think I can save the engine....KNOCKING ON WOOD...the trans and the rear end (with much straightening and repair). And maybe the fire system and the guages. That is about it.

Sigh....I am poor!

The fact that the main hoop and a-pillar bars never moved is a testimony for good cage design. The bars that bent absorbed alot of energy. Trackbird and I spent alot of time talking about seat mounting in the last few days...... It's awesome to hear you are steadily improving. Were the driver side door bars un-moved as well? If we can help in anyway from Ohio, let us know.......

I'd probably pull all of the braided lines and fittings that you can reach. If they aren't bent or obviously damaged from impact with something in the car, I'd look them over and possibly reuse them.

Yeah, the rocker boxes are pushed in and bent down in front a lot, but the NASCAR bars are pretty much unmoved. Yeah seat mounting is one area where I would do a lot of research as well. As Costas has said there is "disagreement" on mounting seats--too rigid=bad too loose=bad. The RaceTech seat had the upper mounts included so we used them. The fabricator did NOT like solid mounting the back to the cage for the reasons of that 1/2 of the crowd. He compromised with an aluminum mount that was thick and stiff, but had a bend in it so a hard shock rearward would not "break my back". I thought this was a good idea and still do, but would talk to manufacturers before doing it again. The main problem with my seat mounting was it was essentially mounted to the floor, and the floor was "in motion" way more than we could have anticipated.

We will pull all the SS lines and fittings. May will be reusable I assume. We can cut out the bad parts and save.

definitely. In my Corvette, the floors are essentially ~1" thick balsa wood, so my seat is tied into the cage and a custom made cage was built beneath the seat that ties into the frame and center driveline area (where a drive shaft would be located under a center console). I believe NASCAR also supports this type of seat mounting. I forget which it is, but as Randy mentioned on the seat back, I think FIA says no and NASCAR says yes. My seat has a mount but with a hard enough hit the seat will still move as it's a piece of round stock that moves in/out of a clamp...even with the clamp all the way tight, there's no way in a hard impact will it actually "hold"


Randy, these pictures are getting more and more surreal. And from what I'm seeing, thank God you are here to share this with us

THANKS CHRIS!!

Out of curiosity, Im wondering if there is any video of how this went down just so we can get a better idea of how it all happened and what you and the car actually went through..

Good luck with your recovery Randy.. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are all glad that you are getting better and better everyday!

I have video from the car behind me. Unfortunately the video is HUGE and I need to edit it....just haven't gotten around to it with the vision issue. Basically, I came upon the slow moving car, which was not all the way to the right on the track. The GT=1 car was mid track. I came upon them over the hill fast, moved to pass the GT-1 car on the left and he moved to the left a couple of times for no reason while I was in there, tapping me as I went by sending me into the slow car.

I will get the video cut down when I can and post the video. You can't see much of what happens to me after the hits though....just looks like a bomb went off....

If you mail it on a CF card or similar to me, I should be able to knock something out for you soonish. LMK if that will help. I unfortunately don't have time this week to drive up

I too can edit it down and host a video on my business server.. If this helps, just PM me.

So is the blurry vision a result of all the blood in your eyes or did the g forces move your retina around? Did the specialist have any insight?

That wheel/spindle/tire pic still has me scratching my head.

At least now when someone starts asking about building a cage we can put up pictures "this will let you survive this".

The blurry vision is from vascular damage to the retina. There was no detached retina. Just some "blockage" in the vessels from the intense pressure of the G Force/shock of the belts/jolts on my system.

That wheel is INSANE to me as well....HOW IN THE HELL!!!!

I have it on a memory stick...the driver mailed it to me..it is 145 MB. I will edit it to just the crash in the next day or so.....

Randy - In this pic, the tube on the upper left was obviously cut by safety working to get you out, but the tube at bottom right of center that is bent about 60deg - was that damage done by safety or was it buckled in the impact?

Nah - They already allow way more than anybody else uses.

Can we chat about the seat back brace?

I'm having a hard time deciding which is better ... a mount that will move and bend a little during violent impacts or one that is as rigid as a roll cage.

Obviously one that is rigid keeps everything in place. But one that moves, contorts and bends is absorbing and dissipating energy that would otherwise be transmitted to the body.

Now, I'm not saying a piece of plastic and some super glue, but in looking at Randy's seat back brace and the beating it took, if it had been more rigid, the forces that bent all that metal would be bending Randy's body.

Similar curiosity about a head restraint or containment system.

Alan,

I also noticed that it looks like the harness bar kinked slightly in this pic (or is that an optical illusion?):

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/568378..._245d8472ff.jpg

Yes, the safety crew cut EVERY bar up top to basically fold the top back like a race car hard top convertable....

That bar you are referring to WAS bent in the crash. These pictures DO NOT do justice to just how much the floor is moved. The rear end and torque are worked the area behind the seat up good. The rear bulkhead it pushed out towards the driver probably 12" in some places and the floor is punched up 12" in some places. The movement was so bad, the tunnel tore from the floor pan and rear bulkhead on the passenger side. The all white paint job won't allow pictures to show how massively buckled the floor really is.

Yeah, it is a conundrum. My builder went with the heavy aluminum that was pre-bent in between the seat and the harness bar. It looks to have worked as the bent is near collapsed now....I think, like you mentioned, giving my body some cushion. The failure of that mount was not the bend or the mounting...it is still bolted to the seat and the harness bar. The failure was at the aircraft rivets used to hold the seat 1/2 of the mount to the harness bar 1/2 of the mount. They all tore loose. I don't think this would have happened without the massive floor movement. The seat is canted out the door at about a 20 degree angle due to the floor movement, I think the moving floor made the rivets fail. If I was doing it again, I would build a "frame" to mount the bottom of the seat and tie to the cage/car better.

Well...here it is.....

Death of a Camaro

After watching it 20 more times here, the NSX is NOWHERE NEAR the side of the track....I was thinking he was 10 feet off the far right.....after looking again, he was dead center of the track and seemed to be moving to the LEFT. Dunno WHAT was going on there. Still, I think I SHOULD have been able to make it through there. I am typically a VERY CONSERVATIVE driver, and that would count as one of the most aggressive things I have attempted to date however. To bad you can't ask me what I was experiencing or thinking since when I watch that video....I might as well be watching a video of one of you guys....no recollection at all. Sigh....

Holy Shit!!! that looked violent as hell. Glad you are still with us man

OMG ...

It looks like you guys touched rear wheels and it launched you.

And I'm assuming the guy that took the shot across his bow is OK?

Was there an IRB? Outcome/ruling?

No ruling that I am aware of. I know many people were upset at the driver who I initially tangled with and he got into a "few scrapes" with others later that day and on Sunday. Causing one driver to pull off the track and say that they would not drive if he was on the track. Like I said, I can't speak of that accident because, to me, it is like I am not in it, but that driver DID nearly push me off the track 4 times in practice on Friday....go figure.

I think he jerked over when he finally saw me and "tank slapped" my ass with his door or quarter panel when he finally DID see me. The only damage to his car was a flat front tire. The NSX had EXTENSIVE damage, but he was fine. He called into his crew to go notify my dad as soon as it happened. He walked out of that wreck. He called me on Sunday crying and was VERY UPSET and saying he was glad I was not killed. Dunno, I told him not to worry about it, but I wonder what in the hell he was doing in the center of the track going that slow.

The SCCA has this tape and some others I think. The had my camera but they either took my file, or the recording ended about a minute before I crashed. I have not heard from the SCCA about any investigation....might have been done without me...like I said...I hear there was a lot of hubub about the other driver.

I don't think the Firebird launched me. I think he turned me, while on the gas 100% hard into the side of the NSX. I supposedly tore the rear suspension off of the NSX and my tow hook tore a line down the entire body of the car. I think I was dragging along the NSX and then got to the nose of the car and it acted like a ramp for me to get up on two wheels...after that.....forget about it.....

After seeing that video, I am just happy to see you posting on here.. My god that looked downright VIOLENT!

Glad your still with us Randy! As for the other guys.. well.. thats another story.. Im just glad everyone is alive.

Wow! I can't even imagine Randy!!! Would have to see slow mo but it looks like the red white and blue car moved left on you maybe as to block you, but reacting way too late? Indeed, limping cars thought that section of track are always on the FAR LEFT, way off line. The track is so freaking wide there there is no reason to be anywhere else! Definitely the most shit in the pants moment I have seen at T-Hill my brother!

OMG Randy! Thank goodness you only suffered the injuries you did... The 'driver' that veered into you, does/did he have some kind of problem with you (tried pushing you off track 4 times) or is he just that bad of a driver? Holy crap...

Wow, simply unbelievable. Much more dramatic than I envisioned. Very glad you are still alive Randy.

I have no history with him other than he came out in front of me on cold tires from the pits in practice and was going slow, he nearly pushed me into the dirt on f4 or 5 turns up until that same hill when I got a nose in there and he got spooked and spun. I got the feeling he had NO IDEA I was there...If he was blocking on practice I worry.....

Many others have told me that car has "a reputation" for being hard to pass and "blocking"....but just hearsay to me...

As for that incident...I would just hope he did not see me.....

I would hope that he was not being careless on purpose. Maybe he needs some lessons on situational awareness? LOL. Back when I was on a dirt track racing team I saw alot of blatant things that resulted in wrecked cars, but was tame compared to yours.

Hey Randy, I'm just now hearing about this. Good to see your alive and on the mend.

Was this an actual race or an open track day?

On that seat mounting issue, a buckled floor is a real problem. You would almost need to encase your body in several inches of special foam to absorb impact and reduce g-forces. It reminds of Formula 1 seats. Most traditional race seats I've seen (and I'm no racer) have little to no padding at all. I assume that's to prevent getting slack in the harness should your body be pressed down or rearward with great force. Perhaps large, rigidly mounted seats with reinforced floors combined with a special thick foam molded to the actual driver and then have the belts critically mounted so as to not go slack when your body pushes into the foam padding. It's giving me some ideas. Hmmm.