Hey guys. We're planning on moving to Charlotte, NC soon. The houses in our price range have small garages

The one we are really interested in is a 2 car, 18ft wide, by about 21ft long. The gas water heater is the corner, and a built in gas heater is nearby, which is nice. The garage is finished, and has pretty high ceilings, looks like 10ft or so. There's two built in over head storage shelves that are made out of wood, and hanging from the ceilings.

So, if we get this house or not, it doesn't matter. All the garages are about the same size. So, how do you guys make the most out of a small space? If there is enough ceiling height, I'd love to build a loft, to give me room for some of my larger, bulkier things, like the compressor and tires and stuff like that.

This house is going to be a stepping stone for us. We'll be in it for roughly 2 years, then we'll move to a larger house, where hopefully I can build myself a huge detached garage.


Anyway, I just wanted to get some opinions/pictures.

Thanks guys!
Steve

DOes the house have a basement? Store your spare parts down there The wife will love you for that! Just make sure you claim your space early and hold your ground!

Charlotte is really bad about basements, which sucks. Most of the houses are slabs, maybe a crawl.

Use it as a passageway to your 40X80 steel building in the back yard?

Just kidding. mostly. But it sounds to me like your realtor isn't working hard enough.

Make _certain_ that overhead storage is secure. I've seen too many of those just nailed to the ceiling.

He definitely is. The problem is this house we're looking for is going to be a stepping stone for us. We're going to only spend 2 years in the house, then we'll rent it out and get more of our "dream" house. The next house will have a 2 car garage, but room for a huge detached garage.

For now, our main priority is buying a house that will be very easy to keep as a rental, and unfortunately, that means for us, cookie cutter house, with a small 2 car garage. That's why I need to come up with a way to make the best of it.

We're still looking at houses, I'm hoping we find something that we like with a larger garage.

Built an awning onto the back of my shop.
Mixed bags of concrete and poured a small slab/footing and mounted my vertical air copressor on it.
Layed out cross ties and back filled with pea gravel to illiminate a mud bog.

Not much to do with such a small space. If there are two cars in it....you're done. Best thing I can think of is start negotiating with the other half of the "us" and hopefully you win. The space you describe will be small with just one car in it if you are working on it with parts and tools spread about. Otherwise, an exterior shed of some kind to keep your "stuff", and maybe one of those "portable" carports erected in the driveway or side yard. I appraise homes for a living and about 40% of garages are really just storage units for the owner. The cars all live outdoors. Fortunately, Charlotte has very little truly bad weather.

Use tupperware containers to store things more efficiently. I built this work bench shelving specifically with this in mind.



I have aluminum scraps in one drawer, steel scraps in another, spare parts, less used tools etc. One of the containers I convered over to a 'track day supplies' drawer so that makes packing the truck a bit quicker.

With that little space you're going to need to be efficient with storage of small stuff, and have floor space do double duty wherever possible. I've got a couple of these mobile racks from Costco, they'll hold a lot of stuff and can be stacked in front of other stuff, just wheel them out of the way for access.



I built 2 cars in my home garage of similar size, with bathroom and laundry, so it's possible. If you have a dryer circuit you are good for a decent compressor, just don't try to run them both at the same time.

Interesting..can you let me know what you end up with? My family is hoping to move to the greater Charlotte area next year (right now we're actually looking across the state line in SC). Most likely leaning towards a townhouse, and I may try and find some kind of garage space to store the race car (if it doesn't just stay at my in-laws place in Northern Ohio).

Thanks guys. The garage that I have now, 22x24, and is the largest I've ever had, and I'm pretty happy with it. Even with my garage, storage is the tough part, especially for the little things. Alan and Stan, great ideas. I think I'll be doing something like that with the new, smaller garage.




I actually grew up in south east Charlotte, but want to live in the Lake Norman area. It's not too far from uptown, but it's a new and growing area. It's a lot of fun up there, with good schools (from what I've heard). We're looking for a single family, but my buddy has a townhouse that's beautiful, and has good sized 1 car garage. If you really want a townhouse, I think you can definitely find one with a garage. And I believe they paid somewhere around the mid $100's.

If you have any more questions, let me know. You're going to enjoy VIR and CMP!

Steve

Here's another of my ways to find things - the red bins are about $7 at Sears. Most of them go with me to the track.

And for a TON of ideas on storage in small spaces and such, don't forget this list:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php

But yeah, storage is going to be the issue. You may want to get a 'boat storage' unit for the short term, for the seasonal things you don't have room for (Christmas decorations, winter clothes). The RubberMaid-type storage boxes are very helpful. You can separate things and keep them handy, easy to move around, and mostly dust and bug-proof.

But since you're planning on this being your jump into home ownership for a couple of years, maybe taking it easy on the car stuff for a short time is a viable route. Two years will just blow by, especially if you spend your spare time getting the new house in order to be your first rental property (and all homes need something almost all the time). That way you won't have as much car stuff to have to move when you make the big move up. Just a thought.

Take a break? You kidding? My plan is to get into CMC towards the end of next year. Plus, I already have a garage full of tools, I just need to figure out how to store everything. I really like some of the ideas that you guys have given me. Pictures are great. If I do it correctly, I should be able to have one car in the garage while I'm working on it, but then be able to pack everything up to fit the Camaro and my wife's Nissan Murano. My Powerstroke F250 lives outside.

The only challenge will be when I yank my 396 for a stock LT1. I've never pulled an engine before, but hopefully I can do it. If it's just not possible, then I'll have a shop do it.

Steve


BTW, this isn't our first rental. We now have 2 rentals, and the house we live in how is going to be rented out. We're getting pretty good at it. Neutral colors!

Off topic but if you've already got a 396 in there, why not just leave it and run AI for a while? Might get you on track a lot sooner and start getting w2w seat time while you develop the rest of the car... Once you have everything else sorted out (brakes, cooling, suspension, safety, etc.) you could do a quick motor swap and come out of the gate strong in CMC. Seat time is the ultimate mod...everything else (except safety) should be much further down the list.

BTW - it's absolutely possible to do a motor swap in a 2 car garage. I've done a few - there are several good write-ups out there that really helped me the first time. Best method I found was dropping the whole K-member, motor, tranny, & front suspension all at once out the bottom onto a big furniture dolly, lifting the body up like a funny car with the engine hoist, and rolling everything out, headers, accessories, wiring harness, and all still attached. It was surprisingly painless and went much quicker than I expected. When you get to that point, lemme know and I'll dig up some of the write-ups and checklists I used.

I have pulled my motor 3 times, always out the bottom. I have the extra benefit of a lift, the method described above should work quite well.

I really want to start with the lower hp of CMC2. I timed some of my latest HPDE's and compared them to the CMC2 track record. The CMC2 car was nearly 10 seconds faster than me! Of course they are lighter, and have better tires, but they also have over 100 less hp. My goal next year is to get my comp license and get the car ready. I really need more track time before I'm ready. I'm also on a tight budget, and I'm hoping to make enough cash on my engine to buy a cheap trailer and a junk yard LT1.

When the time comes, I'll definitely be asking for help on engine swaps.

Thanks,
Steve

Don't worry, that's perfectly normal Same exact thing happened to me when I was starting out in HPDE, also with a 97SS, 396, C6 brakes, etc. Seat time, seat time, seat time. The funny thing is I picked up more pace in 3 weekends of w2w racing than I did in 3 years of HPDE. I was classed by myself in AIX but battling with the CMC backmarkers. Humbling experience but it taught me a LOT. Which is why I suggested making as few changes as possible (aside from the safety stuff) in order to avoid down time that keeps you off the track. Pit with the CMC guys but run in AI if you have to, run in AIX if you have to, hell run in time trials if you have to...just don't tear the car apart and let it sit for a year waiting on money and parts to all line up. Find a way to stay on track and keep improving as a driver. The other stuff will work itself out along the way and you'll be much better prepared and have a lot more fun when you finally do make your CMC debut. Don't be the guy that spends 2 years building the perfect car only to finally get out there and realize you need 2 more years of seat time to win a battle for 15th place. That's how good race cars wind up on Ebay

Doesn't sound like where you're heading, just throwing it out there for perspective....

That makes a lot of sense. I really think the only thing keeping me out of CMC is my engine, so I'll change that out as soon as I find a decent LT1. I figure that and then the cage, and I'm g2g....as far as the expensive things go. I'm planning on doing track days while I'm getting the car ready.

I'm really afraid of being the guy who holds everybody up in the race, so I want to be prepared. The whole move may happen sooner rather than later, so I may be able to start racing sooner than I was initially thinking.

Anyone have an LT1 that they want to sell me?

See if Mitch wants to split up his car: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=15344

If that doesn't pan out, check with an old buddy of mine in Durham, NC: http://carolinaautomasters.com/

I know Jeff very well. He is one talented individual. His ability to tune a car really is impressive. I've got his custom cam and his tuning work in the car now. We've been emailing back and forth about my plans. He said he has a bunch of LT1's laying around, but all of them need work.

We have several guys in Texas running junkyard/high mileage motors that spend a lot (too much) time on the podium.

A little off topic... don't worry about it. As you work through HPDE and licensing, seek feedback about your on track behavior. As long as you are predictable and on-line those fast guys will get around you fine. Now I have to work really hard to be able to see Casey from the CMC backmarket seat...

Offer accepted on a house! Garage is a 20x20 with a single, 2 car garage door. I was really worried because there are some SMALL garages out there. One had a 2 car garage that was 17x18.

Anyway, I think I can make a 20x20 work. The only thing I really don't like is the water heater is in the garage. If I could move that, it would free up a lot of space. But I have a feeling it would cost a lot in plumbing work to have it moved.

Might not be a big deal. What is on the other side of the wall from the water heater? Is it electric?

Other options would be less appealing...in the attic, or elsewhere in the house.

It's gas. On the other side of the garage wall is interior stairs going from right to left as you stand in the garage facing the back wall. Hmmm...maybe we could punch a hole and put the water heater under the stairs? I could create the space, and just have someone change the plumbing. Maybe we could change to electric so we wouldn't have to worry about the exhaust from the gas.

I saw from my other thread that you are an inspector? What is a wall that is shared by the house and a garage made of? Is it anything special?


Edit: Damnit! I was thinking of another house that we put an offer on, but didn't get. There's a living room on the other side of the garage. It may have to stay.

2 days ago we moved into our new house in Huntersville, NC. Believe it or not, the 20x20 is actually one of the largest garages we looked at. Who's building these houses?

Anyway, the water heater is gas, 40 gal. It also has a huge water softener with a metal pole in front of the water heater. The water heater runs out of steam real quick and I've been thinking about replacing it with either a tankless, or a hybrid unit that mounts on the wall.

That would free up just about all of that space. We have city water, and it seems to be just fine with the water softener bypassed, so I'm going to just sell it.

Anyone have any experience with tankless or hybrid water heaters? I know they are more expensive, but they will save money. The hybrid's are maintenance free (just about).

I really want to get that mess out of my garage and free up all that space.

Ale Pale? You're a homebrewer?

I am! Well, just starting out. I've only made 3 batches so far, but have no plans to stop. I love it. I assume you are also?

I recently had to replace my hot water heater, and looked into some of the tankless options. My research found out that the tankless versions are more suited to lower-use scenarios (one or two people, limited-use cabins, etc.). Typical family of four with laundry/daily showers/dishwasher will cause the tankless units to struggle to keep the water hot with sustained use. Plus, they are not cheap.

If you intend to turn this house into a rental you may want to keep the house as "conventional" as possible. Just because they are renters doesn't mean they will be perfect renters. Is there room for a temporary outside storage shed for some of the items that won't see frequent usage?

It's been a while.

I'm on my last bottle of mead ...

I've been finding the same. I think it would be fine for my wife and myself, but you are right, someday a family of 4 could be in this house and will require more hot water.

Unfortunately, as much as I'd love one, I just don't have the space for a shed. I do on the side yard, but that's against the HOA. I was looking at it some more, and that water softener is really taking up quite a bit of space. I think I'll start by ripping that out and see if I can live with just the water heater in the corner.

Well, 5 weeks after we moved in, my garage looks like this. I've had other "move in" projects that take priority like painting walls, hanging pictures, and hanging curtains. Of course my wife is the one who made all of these things a priority, but now that she's happy, I can get to work. Of course I did have my own little project that I snuck in.




So, here is a picture of my garage as it sits right now.



My 20x20 excuse for a garage has zero storage (except for my two cabinets), one outlet, and one light bulb that's supposed to light the entire garage.

The water softener that was next to the water heater is gone. That freed up a lot of room. There is a metal post in front of the water heater to keep people from running into the water heater that needs to be removed. I can live with the water heater where it's at.




I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what direction I wanted to go as far as storage and making the most of the small space. I was going to build a really long, but skinny work bench, but I really don't need that. I need shelves, peg board, and a small work bench.

Here's what I'm going to build along the back wall.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects...ge/Step-By-Step

I'm going to modify the design to allow for a larger folding work bench, and more peg board. Once that's built, I'm going to put in serious garage lighting, and add at least 5 more outlets. Finally, some overhead storage should finish things off. That'll give me a place to keep bulky things like wheels and tires.

My goal for today is to go to Lowes and get all the lumbar and brackets along with something to cut that metal pipe out of the floor. That's not going to be fun.


Hopefully this week I'll have the garage more or less finished, and I'll be able to get the Camaro back to the car and start working on getting it ready for CMC.

I just picked up two folding tire lofts from Amazon and haven't hung them yet but they look nice and sturdy especially considering the price. Tire storage loft

Thank you for the link....I think I'm going to copy the design and make one out of 2x4s tomorrow.

Here's the progress I've made. Next time I'm buying 1x4's instead of trying to rip all those boards from a sheet of plywood using a circular saw...took me forever. Other than that, it's going really well. I decided to take my time and paint everything, including the peg board. It'll make it look much nicer when done. My folding work bench turned out really good. I used two door hinges, which are plenty strong. I just have to try to come up with some folding legs. Anyone have any ideas? I bought replacement folding legs for a banquet table, which would have been really sturdy, but they are too short for the height of the work bench that I chose. I thought 2x4's with hinges would work well, but I don't have a way to keep them from flopping around. Lowes doesn't seem have anything for this application.

Tomorrow, I'm going to finish mounting the shelving brackets, and rip and paint the shelves. The next project after that is to get some serious lighting mounted on the ceiling.

Let me know what ideas you guys have for folding legs.

Steve

Oh yeah, any ideas on what to do with this thing? Angle grinder?

Angle grinder with a cut-off wheel or a sawzall.

Sawzall with a 8" blade would be flexible enough to get it cut off pretty flush, but you'll want to smooth it out with a flap disc on an angle grinder, so if you don't have either tool, get a Makita 4.5" angle grinder from Home Depot, about $60, and a cutoff wheel and flap disc and have at it.

I say torch it then grind, faster and less strain. just need to be careful on the heat as cement will explode....

I've got a decent Harbor Freight 4.5" angle grinder with a ton of cut off wheels. I'll just grab a flap disk and go to town.





First of all, didn't know that about cement and heat. As much as I'd like one, I don't have a torch.

Hop on the Garage Journal web site and look in the Garage Gallery forum:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdi...desc&page=2

One of the big posters there, Jack Olsen, has a little 2-car garage that he's turned into quite the little fab shop. He has many folding tables there, including one welding table that folds up against the wall so he can park his Porsche 930. The thread on his garage is 'the 12-gauge garage', to ease searches. I was just over there looking for Jack's thread, and discovered another thread where a guy is discussing his 20X20 buildout. There's TONS of ideas over there.

I know what I'm doing for the next few hours....awesome forum! Thank you!

Steve

Wow! Off to Lowes...got some ideas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Y-iRs4Egc...feature=related

I got rid of my electric water tank heater...
I got a 36kW tankless water heater (electric)... use the space for my compressor now, and my electrical bill did go down by 27-28% for every comparable time from the year before that... throughout the whole year... been saving ~ $50/month on electricity... and electricity here is much cheaper than south of the border.

Everything in my house is electrical (heating, appliances)... and given that after 2 baths, there is no more hot water, I'm glad I can have as much hot water as I want... and not spending $ to heat up water that is not in use.

the model I have is the Stiebel Eltron Tempra 36 Plus (36kW)... I got it from here: http://www.e-tankless.com/stiebel-eltron-t...ater-heater.php
If you call, it's cheaper than the price online (that's what happened to me)... I needed 3x 60A fuses and heavy guage wires... but I took the huge one.
After some stress tests, I cannot use more than ~24kW of power from it, because the water pressure cannot cope w/ the demand... ie, if I open more focets, the pressure goes down... limited by what comes from the city... but those tests were during the summer, when the water temperature was a bit higher than it would be in the winter... took the 36 for peace of mind.

Been extremely happy w/ the unit... almost 2 years now that I have it... still say it's among the best mods i did to the house.
my 2 cents.

Made some pretty good progress today considering I got a late started due to rain. The goal is to have it done tomorrow and start on the lights. This is addictive, especially after seeing what people do on the garage journal forums.

Awesome progress so far.

Yeah, you can burn up a LOT of time on the GJ forum. Not that I know anything about that.

One if the biggest issues is sizing the heater correctly. Too small, and it's very easy to get too small, and you're hating every second you own one. My only experience with one was when we took a dive trip to the bay islands Honduras. The buildings were powered by electricity from a diesel generator, and the water was heated by a single tankless gas heater per 2 cabins. It usually either ran too cold, or too hot, and we knew the _second_ the people in the other cabin turned their water on.

It's nice to hear you're saving electricity there. It's something I might have to look in to, especially since it's just the two of us, and we use hot water maybe 4X a day. The prices there are pretty dang cheap from what I've been seeing in the big box hardware stores.

Shelves are done! Got two 4' florescent lights installed today also. More to come!

Of course there's no room to set an engine block, but how much weight will those shelves hold?

I know, I was thinking about that. I'm not even sure where my 12" miter saw is going to go. I'm definitely not done, but that wall of shelves is a good place to start. Once I fill those up, I'll see what else I need. I just need to figure out how to keep the shelves organized.

An engine could probably go on a dolly on the floor in front of the work bench. I could at least move it around a little as needed. Those shelves should hold a ton of weight, but I wouldn't trust an engine block on them.

Today I just need to hard wire the work bench light and start getting organized. My goal is to have the Camaro in the garage along side my wife's Murano on Sunday.