I REFUSE to watch F1 any more.....IT IS NOT RACING.....

...I sit at a computer ALL DAY....with IE on in the background....

Just for some information.

At Sebring, the Caddys had a 7900 rev limit. During the race, Angelelli won the race, but only by a scant margin. He only turned a 2:12.9 lap time on the way to the win. But his team mate Pilgrim came from the back of the pack and turned a 2:10.xx time which was faster than his qualifying time. When the SCCA downloaded the Data Acquisition, they did the "Theoretical best lap" using the data and found that Pilgrim could do a 2:07. best lap and did it using only 7000 rpms.

SCCA said that if you can do a 210 lap only using 7k then that will be their new limit. And since they turned 3 seconds faster than any car out there, they also got a 100 pound penalty and restrictor.

So there had to be a clear decision by the Caddy team to run one car slow.

And we all know that if they could have run 1-2, they would have not run the 2:10 lap but they would both have run the 213 fastest lap. This clearly indicaes that they would have run just fast enough to win but not give up track position while at the same time run slow.

It may be called Sandbagging but I call it "Planining".

LG

OK....OK....I give up!

I will be VERY surprised to see the "Mid Pack Conspiracy" theory work in any way to achieve a Manufacturers Title, but I will agree to all, that we must wait and see.

I just hope there will be SOME good racing and I don't have to post a RATHER PUBLIC apology to all those I have scoffed at!

See Ya at Sears Lou!

... when we were at Sebring, during qualifying, we timed Andy's Caddy, as well as Phil's Vette and our own car. We could see the 1/10 increases each lap until they were told, 'that's enough, you have the pole', just infront of Phil's car.

I see this as the 'Money Pit', coming in with a 'development' that needs real world testing, not just going around the Nurenburgring for days at a time. That was just getting ready for the series. The way these cars are built/engineered, it's un-freaking-believable.

Randy, get up close and personal and just look at what's been chopped and channelled and re-engineered. All the way down to the floor pans.

The only thing that resembles stock on those cars is the Caddy emblem.

Anyone read Smokey Yunick's book?

I guess Randy's ire is more directed at "Why not the Audi's as well."

Understandable ...

I like the fact that privateers like Tom and Lou can build cars and compete. And compete on a level playing field.

... I believe that the next race will be an 'eye opener'.

Damn you guys....you drew me out again...

Couple of things...

FIRST AND FOREMOST, although I have not seen the Caddies up close, I have seen enough pics to know they are WAY BEYOND the spirit of the rules of WC. I was one of the FIRST to rip the SCCA for allowing the Caddies on the WC website back in December. My point has been, "OK...we let them in....bad move, but, now lets deal with them and bring them to the other cars performance wise."

I keep hearing "when we were at Sebring" (from everybody...not just you) "you should have SEEN THESE THINGS FLY!" Well Sebring was a while ago, and IMO substantial changes/penalties were made to the car. IT IS NOT THE SAME CAR, SO THESE OBSERVATIONS ALTHOUGH TRUE HAVE NO BEARING NOW. I have also heard MATHMATICAL calculations as to how the Caddies can go DOUBLE DIGIT under lap records if they so choose. OK, fine, but that IS NOT what we are seeing....WHEN will I see these lap times??? I CANNOT believe the "strategy" of finishing mid pack to win a championship....ESPECIALLY if Audi is gonna KEEP FINISHING 1-2....I CAN BELIEVE Audi's apparent strategy....go JUST FAST ENOUGH to stay in the front and NO MORE....now THAT is a strategy I KNOW IS BEING USED!



I have also heard this EVERY race now....yet THE ONLY eye opener is that the Caddies fall further back in the pack....I know, I know.....it is THEIR STRATEGY DUMMY I just am not getting it.....THE FIRST TIME I SEE A CADDY HAVE AN AUDI LIKE PERFORMANCE I WILL BE RIGHT BACK WITH YOU GUYS, BUT AS LONG AS THEY FINISH MID PACK, THEY ARE EITHER BEING HELD IN CHECK, OR SANDBAGGING....BUT WHO CARES??? When you got privateers finishing in front of them EVERY RACE...what is the difference???

... some in-car video from Tiger Racing is up on their WEBSITE.

NICE VIDEOS!

I will say though, at the end of lap one....the Viper is HOUNDING Heinracy....Caddy holding him up.....while...low and behold.....

Can't see an Audi for the LIFE OF ME!

Ok,
Here is the deal.

Audi= faster than Caddy at present levels.

Caddy faster then everything else at base weight, where Heinricy was

Porsche, Viper, Corvette very close, except that the Porsche and Viper are a little light.

BMW needs Auberlen or Boris to be as fast as last year

Mustang= big power medium driving, but hard to tell if it could be faster. Boris will be in one at Sears point then we will see.

Rewards weight skews the curve. The 2 regular Caddys and Audi had over 100 pounds in rewards weight which should caculate to a 1.2 second slower car at Mid O. when in reality the Audi was faster than the unweighted Caddy. So the Audi should come down to the Caddy speed. But were it not for the Audi, the Caddy would have run away with the show, so it needs to come back to the performance levels of the other cars.

Forget about where and why they finished 6th and 7th, just keep in mind that the unweighted caddy was just as dominant as the Audi that had 100 pounds of rewards weight. And the Viper only had 60 pounds and the Vettes had NO Weight.

An unweighted Vette could not keep up with the unweighted Caddy, period.


The answer is that SCCA has a hard job dealing with the factorys. the real answer is that they should beat the factorys down to the point that only a non factory car can win for 3 races to make up for the Audi/Caddy gifts that they were given at Sebring, LR and Mid O.


LG

Well, we can only hope the SCCA can somehow keep the playing field level. I, for one, would like to see the private teams beating the factory teams.

Here here Mericet! Go private guys!

OK....now you're talkin' Lou.....I can agree with that! ESPECIALLY the part where you mention WEIGHTED Audi's being FASTER than UNWEIGHTED Caddys (i.e. Hienracy). Now THAT is just plain wrong for that to be happening! The Audi rewards weight should have kicked in by now....

In short.....Audi should be moved back in some way (boost???) other than weight and rewards weight, as they will WHINE LIKE DOGS that their tires will fall off the car with more weight . I can agree that an unweighted Caddy (again Heinracy) was too fast for the field.....NOT MIND BOGGLING fast like Sebring, but another slight adjustment may be needed to the "base" car. As far as rewards weight affecting the Caddy's, I think it HAS, and if the base was TWEAKED a little....not hammered like last time....the Caddy would be good to go....

Ultra short version:

Audi: Fairly major adjustment ON TOP of rewards weight needed.
Caddy: Fairly minor adjustment needed to base car.

Look forward to seeing you in person back at the front at Sears Lou!

... 'I love the smell of race gas in the morning'.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

octane good ...

Okay Admit great drivers equal great results.

Audi-Pobst great drivers, lots o' cash (via factory) = podium finishes
Caddy-Hienrocket, Pilgrim, Max A, lots o' cash (via factory)= podium finishes
Viper-Tommy Archer, lots of sponsor cash = podium finishes
Lou G- More talant than cash = some podium finishes
Culver- don't know much about him but fast at Mid-O
Tommy Oats- mix of talent and cash
Vipers, Vettes, Porsches mixed the rest of the field from front to back. O'h and a GTO (sorry Stu)
The Mustang has no competition hope in this race. Should be moved to WCT

These are my ramblings, but the point is the above mentioned names can do well in any car given seat time and Lots O' Cash. Lou+Caddy=Podium, Tommy Archer+Caddy+podium, Stu Hayner+Caddy=Podium and so on.

I can't remeber where I have heard this but: "Where Money Buys Speed"

LOL ... I've procured a lot of speed there ....

AND.....dropped a lot of MONEY there...

I just watched “Cadillac Test Drive, CTS-V” on Speed Channel. In one segment they had Max Angelelli and Andy Pilgrim in the CTS-VR cars and Tommy Kendall in the CTS-V (street version) on the track at Sebring at the same time. Seeing the 2 models side by side from a distance, you would NOT think they were the same car. One looks tall and narrow, while the other looks very wide and low.

As they get closer, you can see that they both have the same “fart and science” styling theme that defines Cadillac today. Pratt and Miller really did a good job of retaining the “look” of the regular V. The VR has all of the jarring asymmetrical origami creases of the street car, similar greenhouse, even appears to have real headlights (or VERY good decals). NASCAR should do so well.

But, the silhouettes are just 2 different vehicles. Does anyone know if the WC Vipers and Vettes are chopped and widened any?

I heard that there were some significant rules changes for everyone ... except the GTO

I just went to www.sccapro.com and clicked on the "Discussion Forums"

Anything look funny to anyone?

WOW!!!!!

That is UN...F'ING...BELIEVABLE....!!!

They hit the Audi....YEAH!


But say Caddy is good, and ALL THE OTHERS GET 20% less air???????????????? WTF????

....then disable the message board...........

that is REALLY hoaky man....

Sorry Lou!

I guess the SCCA web admin staff are out driving their new "evaluation" CTSs as we type ...

I clicked on "Contact" at the bottom and sent Eric this

What happened that stripped the WC forum?

The other forums seem to work OK ...

Signed
A fan, quickly becoming disillusioned with all the politics ...

...damn....all this time I have been defending SCCA and the goings on against the two "unreasonable" Caddy complaints:

1. Caddy Sandbagging
2. Caddy conspiracy to "own" the series

IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION, I WOULD NEVER HAVE THOUGHT I WOULD BE PROVEN WRONG ON THE CONSPIRACY SIDE OF THINGS!!!!

In the back of my mind I thought....OK....Caddy ****MIGHT**** do something to make it "LOOK" like they were sandbagging and I will have to defend my points, but this move by the SCCA STINKS OF SOME REAL OFFENSIVE "decision" making....

EVEN I GOT TO ADMIT......THIS JUST HANDS CADDY THE UPPER HAND IN SO MANY WAYS!!!!

Hell....maybe I better complain since Caddy is OBVIOUSLY handing SCCA so much money my GODDAMN ENTRY FEES should go down eh?????



SICK man.....JUST SICK!

For those of you looking for the details on the rules updates - http://www.world-challenge.com/news/04press96.html

Yep, I'm glad I'm just an amateur wannabe racer. If I had a large budget sunk into a team changes like this would throw me and my budget for a loop I'm sure. I have no idea why they would hit everyone with handicaps instead of just trying to even out the playing field by going after the ones that are dominating the series.

I hightly doubt there's a conspiracy to have Caddy dominate the series. SCCA made a mistake letting Caddy into the WC with their huge changes from the street car and they realized it. They have rendered the Caddy uncompetitive until this change, and the jury's still out on the end effect of this change. Notice, they hit the Audi on many fronts - rpm limit, weight, and turbo boost. Only Heinricy's Caddy did well at Mid Ohio. With these changes I'm sure it would have dominated that race, but then it would instantly get hit with weight, just like the other Caddys that are now mid pack runners.

Mike,

Your points ARE EXACTLY MY POINTS.....from ****yesterday****

But the Caddy Base was STILL able to catch the Audis at the end of the last race.....some would say that without the crazy long yellow, and shortened race....the Audi's tires were DONE, and Caddy would have WALKED AWAY WITH IT.....

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE SERIES.....penalize EVERYBODY BUT CADDY?????

uh un.....NO WAY!

Like I said. Only Heinricy's "base" Caddy was competitive in that race. As soon as he wins a race he won't be "base" anymore. He'll be just like the other mid-pack running Caddys. Keep in mind that was Heinricy driving too. Pairing his experience with these cars and Mid Ohio makes him Caddy's attempt to show SCCA the Audis were unbeatable even if Caddy threw everything they had at them. It appears to have worked.

But Mike, realize, all this dancing going on, in an attempt to "level the playing field" is burning up the season.

So Audi's get weight and less boost.
Vipers and Vette's get a HUGE restrictor.

The base Caddy could hang with them (Heinricy) and Angelelli and Pilgrim now are back to that base.

I don't see how this is leveling the field.

Disabling the discussion mechanism was just too obvious.

You might not believe in conspiracies just like I don't believe in coinidences.

A 20% restrictor will take away about 50 hp. The goal of SCCA is to make it so that each car at it's base weight would be equal. These changes will bring the Audi down to below the Caddy, and relegate the rest of the field to also rans. We will be Soybean filler in the Cadillac feast.

The Audi with rewards weight should not have won Mid Ohio. The Caddy of Heinricy should have only been able to run equal with a Corvette with no rewards weight. But he and the Audi ran away from the field.

I was only able to keep Angelelli a few car lengths back even though he had 120# of rewards weight. That was about right although if I had that same 120# weight, te Caddy would have ran away from me. So that shows that the caddy was still above the Vette.

The 1% rear weight reduction is equal to taking 15 pounds of te rear and putting it on te front. So you really think that will do very much?

If my team mates were not from the Sears Pt area, we would not even go to the race.

I want to race, not just go to try to get a 5th place which is the top anyone will reach unless te Caddy or Audi break.

I think that they have made an error. One that might impact the credibility of the series forever, unless they reverse this decision.

As a side note, they are essentially giving the GTO a 50hp boost because they did not do their homework. They have the same engine, weight and tire as us but they are not making the same hp, but not because it is not there, but because they didn't do their homework.

What a bad decision.

The net result is that Caddys will win every race that they want, regardless of their rewards weight.

LG

Yep....

Sorry Lou....that just PLAIN SUCKS! I can't believe SCCA did this! I agree that this will make it a Caddy parade!

I didn't believe in Caddy sandbagging, and I CERTAINLY didn't believe in the conspiracy crap...but.....MAYBE I was wrong on the conspiracy part...

I, like you, can find no logic (other than letting Caddy dominate) that would justify these changes....

Again...sorry

Right now I find it much easier to believe the SCCA is just stupid than there's a conspiracy to let Caddy win. There were plenty of stupid decisions in the Trans Am series, so why should this be any different?

I'm sorry too Lou. Like I said, I find it much easier to just race for fun, than for a career. I don't know how you put up with it.

Can anyone think of a logical reason to put 20% restrictors on every car out there other than the Caddy and Audis? Is the SCCA looking to slow all the cars down for safety reasons or something?

I will say one thing though. Given this new restrictor rule, the SCCA will obviously have to hit the Caddys hard when they finish 1-3 at the next race. I just don't know why they don't do it now.

Still don't believe in either Caddy sandbagging or a conspiracy theory though.

Trans AM decisions? Gentilozzi ... nuff said ... they also hitched their wagon to the HIGHLY political CHAMP car series ...

Let's "what if" for a few minutes ...

What if the Caddys DON'T run 1-2-3?
What if the GTO has a top 5?
What if the Audi's finish OUTSIDE of the top 10?

Remember, the prize is the Manufacturer's Championship as far as Caddy is concerned. An individual driver's feat is second priority ...

I would say that if those three "what if's" happened.....the SCCA would look pretty damn good.....and would have mission accomplished....

We ALL KNOW however......those three WON'T happen with the new rules....

Mike, I was with ya on both points....just find it hard to think SCCA is THAT stupid....ESPECIALLY since all the crap they took after Sebring....and by shutting down the message board BEFORE the announcement....THEY KNEW WHAT THE REACTION WAS GOING TO BE....

WTF??

I do not believe the penalties the SCCA gave to the Audis are sufficient to make them finish out of the Top 10. I bet they are still potential race winners right behind the Caddys.

For now I see no competition for the Caddys, which is why I am absolutely confident the SCCA will come down hard on them either by Infineon or just after.

What I don't understand is why they would put a 20% restrictor on every other car out there. There is something else going on that we don't know about, but I'm still saying it's not a conspiracy.

The most logical thing to do would be to remove this new rule for 20% restrictors on everyone else, keep the new restrictions on the Audis, and make the Caddys run a car that at least looks like the street car. I do believe that was an absolutely asinine call by the SCCA in the beginning to let the Caddys run like this. However, now that Caddy has sunk this money into the series, they've sponsored the series for this year, etc. I bet there is huge pressure on the SCCA to figure out how to keep the current base car legal and make the other cars competitive. That's where they just can't get it right. They were on the right track after Sebring, but it's obvious without some weight the Caddy will still run away.

Mike....agree with where you are coming from.....

However.....ALL THE OTHER CARS.....for the most part were ALREADY pretty much dialed in as far as being competitive with one another...at least within a SMALL adjustment or two.....

IT WAS THE CADDY'S AND AUDI'S WHO WERE OUT OF SYNC.....

So why not bring those guys back to where the "field" was???? Up until now....that is what I thought SCCA was doing.....but this.....

....naw....this is something else...

Yep, this is something else, like I said above. Don't understand the 20% thing. Don't understand the WC board going down either. I'd love to see what's being said in the racer's part of the forum that we can't get into.

Hey Lou . . .

Mitch, I'm a little worried that you work for a nuclear power plant and are very anxious to believe in conspiracies. Any chance you've picked up this tendency since being involved with government agencies?

See, since I'm in the automotive industry I might see the logic in believing that the people who are high up at the UAW secretly own a huge amount of property in Mexico and China and are driving business out of the US as part of their master plan to sell their foreign property, make a huge killing, and retire to a small Carribean island.

Maybe so ... good point.

I see so many changes come from "governing bodys" that make absolutely no sense and are knee jerk reactions to a small group of lobbyists' constant whining, that, to me at least, this is just sooooooo obvious ...

And we all know that the SCCA is not known for it's user friendly attitude.

hmmmm, Speed board is back up....funny....when it went down, I had a browser open to it open all day, and when I go home I posted a question to the SCCA as to why the rule changes and the clandestine tactics of shutting down the board, and when we could expect an explaination....

...it posted fine, I was able to read it after it was done...

it is gone now...

LOL ...

It appears I'm not the only one who thinks that a conspiracy is in place ...

http://www.99chevy.com/forum/read_thread.c...dID=37&Thread=7

I think the ls1.com mods have taken over the SCCA Pro Racing board.

Well, this should be an interesting addition to the mix: Porsche Challenge team

Wonder how they will do?