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Full Version: 1998 Formula Firebird LS1/T56 - ESP build
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Smitty2919
Ahh yes brain fart. I meant it as the torsen helical gears and auburn cone gears are not serviceable.

In terms of wear, you may only use your car for racing only maybe once a month and have had 3 diffs in 10years. I will DD mine seeing 10k mi if that per year and autocross once a month during autocross season.

Do you think DD a diff with monthy autocross needing replaced once a year?
ReEntryRacer
QUOTE (Smitty2919 @ Oct 9 2014, 01:17 PM) *
Ahh yes brain fart. I meant it as the torsen helical gears and auburn cone gears are not serviceable.

In terms of wear, you may only use your car for racing only maybe once a month and have had 3 diffs in 10years. I will DD mine seeing 10k mi if that per year and autocross once a month during autocross season.

Do you think DD a diff with monthy autocross needing replaced once a year?


I have an '01 Firehawk with original Torsen and 60,000 miles. It still leaves two black strips out of every corner, only serviced once, and it gets driven HARD.
The racecar with the Auburn was built and used for mini-enduro races of 1 hour or more, on my home track with most corners as tight as any AX course, but with fast entries to most corners.
I gave up on the Torsen in the first season of racing as it just did the 'one tire fire' all the time. The Auburns have stood up and worked well. The first one I folllowed the instructions and added the lubricity additive they send in the box. Bad idea for a race car, its quiet, but it slips too much. I filled it without synthetic or additive (Red Line HD) and got all the bite I needed.

Only caution is that Auburn will ask you to prove (send pic) that you will use their Racer's Diff. in your race car. I assume that means it will not last as long in a DD due to the higher bias.
Smitty2919
QUOTE (ReEntryRacer @ Oct 9 2014, 05:48 PM) *
I have an '01 Firehawk with original Torsen and 60,000 miles. It still leaves two black strips out of every corner, only serviced once, and it gets driven HARD.
The racecar with the Auburn was built and used for mini-enduro races of 1 hour or more, on my home track with most corners as tight as any AX course, but with fast entries to most corners.
I gave up on the Torsen in the first season of racing as it just did the 'one tire fire' all the time. The Auburns have stood up and worked well. The first one I folllowed the instructions and added the lubricity additive they send in the box. Bad idea for a race car, its quiet, but it slips too much. I filled it without synthetic or additive (Red Line HD) and got all the bite I needed.

Only caution is that Auburn will ask you to prove (send pic) that you will use their Racer's Diff. in your race car. I assume that means it will not last as long in a DD due to the higher bias.



I have heard from others about not adding in the additive to the Auburn Diffs. How do you prove a car is a "race car"? Put stickers all over it? lol Do they frown upon replacing the diff if you put it in a DD? lol
dailydriver
QUOTE (ReEntryRacer @ Oct 9 2014, 05:48 PM) *
Only caution is that Auburn will ask you to prove (send pic) that you will use their Racer's Diff. in your race car. I assume that means it will not last as long in a DD due to the higher bias.



I know this is a very subjective question, being that they are such dissimilar diffs, but does the Auburn Racer's diff seem to be at least the equal, as far as bias goes, to the T2R, or not??

This question is open to others who may have had BOTH, if you have never used a T2R.
Smitty2919
I thought I came across something saying the T2R was higher bias than Auburn....but since the Torsen's have/had quality issues etc does it even matter? lol

I would call a vendor of both and ask. Strano comes to mind of knowing since I believe he ran a T2R and went to Auburn due to the T2R quality issues and Torsen's inability to acknowledge the issue.
FlatBlack
QUOTE (Smitty2919 @ Oct 9 2014, 02:50 PM) *
I'm interested in all this differential talk. I need to get on over the winter for next season.

Flatblack, what was your reason for going with the Eaton clutch pack vs Eaton TrueTrac or even the Auburn Race diff with their rebuild program? How is it working out for you?

I'm only running 275 V710's on stock 10 spoke ss wheels and try to autocross as much as possible with the car being a DD. I have horrible RH turn pass rear tire spinning issues and can't power out of turns.

I like the rebuildable clutch pack/spring idea vs Auburn/helical gear design only offering their rebuild program for the first 4 years after initial purchase.


From the last page:

QUOTE (FlatBlack @ Aug 5 2014, 06:47 PM) *
My previous region's ESP group went through most of the diffs, and the Eaton clutch diff is the one that holds up to 315 A6s on all 4 corners. The helicals and Auburn Racer's diff didn't last long. My car came with the "Zexel-Torsen" diff. It didn't work after 120,000 miles.


So I've only had the Eaton clutch type, but 3-4 guys using the same axle came to the conclusion that it worked the best. From what I gather, I'm going to need to rebuild even the Eaton every other year or so, but it seems to hold up the longest on Hoosiers.

No complaints with mine, I actually had the inside rear chirp pulling out of a parking space the other day, so it's still working for sure. It has probably 1000+ miles and 80+ autocross runs on it by now.
dailydriver
When everyone rebuilds their Eaton Posi, do they just replace the carbon clutchpack with the same, or do they switch over to the 'old school' steel clutchpacks??

I take it that NO ONE is running the 800 lb. springs in theirs, correct?
FlatBlack
Lots of winter upgrades happened.

Installed TSP 1 7/8" Longtubes and a 3" Off Road Y-Pipe. Currently still using the stock exhaust from the I-Pipe back, but plan to dump at the axle. Hopefully later this year.

Got the Strano 35mm hollow bar, ended up being 5# lighter than the 32mm solid bar I had been running, and should be much stiffer. Also took some weight out buy pulling the A/C compressor/lines, radio/speakers, and air pump box. Was about 50# total.

Last but not least, I picked up Dave Ogburn's CCWs. They are 17x12 (he also gave me the 11" outers) with 335s on the front, and 315s on the rear. Can't wait to try these steam rollers out at the College Station Annex for the Texas Tour smile.gif

Steve91T
You've got the wider tires up front?
FlatBlack
QUOTE (Steve91T @ Mar 20 2015, 03:55 PM) *
You've got the wider tires up front?


Yes
ESP125
QUOTE (FlatBlack @ Feb 27 2014, 05:20 PM) *
Hello all,

Just picked up a 1998 Formula that I will be prepping for ESP class in SCCA Autocross. It's Blurple, but I don't care too much about my cars look smile.gif

I have some other things to take care of first, but wheels (17x9 or 10+) and suspension should come soon. I plan on Koni yellows and GC coilovers.






I noticed you said you were looking to get some Koni coil overs. Would you be interested in a complete set from my 94 Camaro? They are Koni Sports (yellow), they were rebuilt/dynoed in 2013 (only have 30 events on them) Front part number is 8242 1005SP1 and rear part number is 8242 1006SP1. The car is set up for ESP as well and took 1st at Nationals (ladies class) and 8th (mens) in 2010.
dailydriver
QUOTE (FlatBlack @ Oct 15 2014, 09:12 AM) *
No complaints with mine, I actually had the inside rear chirp pulling out of a parking space the other day, so it's still working for sure. It has probably 1000+ miles and 80+ autocross runs on it by now.


Are you using any limited slip friction modifier in yours (whether added in via 4 ounce bottle, or already in the gear oil)?

Also what type of gear oil (synthetic or mineral based)?
FlatBlack
QUOTE (ESP125 @ Mar 21 2015, 06:19 PM) *
I noticed you said you were looking to get some Koni coil overs. Would you be interested in a complete set from my 94 Camaro? They are Koni Sports (yellow), they were rebuilt/dynoed in 2013 (only have 30 events on them) Front part number is 8242 1005SP1 and rear part number is 8242 1006SP1. The car is set up for ESP as well and took 1st at Nationals (ladies class) and 8th (mens) in 2010.


I've already got Koni yellows, but thanks for the offer. I was mostly referencing the coilover sleeves/springs, not the shocks.

QUOTE (dailydriver @ Mar 21 2015, 10:51 PM) *
QUOTE (FlatBlack @ Oct 15 2014, 09:12 AM) *
No complaints with mine, I actually had the inside rear chirp pulling out of a parking space the other day, so it's still working for sure. It has probably 1000+ miles and 80+ autocross runs on it by now.


Are you using any limited slip friction modifier in yours (whether added in via 4 ounce bottle, or already in the gear oil)?

Also what type of gear oil (synthetic or mineral based)?


IIRC the Eaton comes with a paper slip that says not to use LSD friction modifiers? Pretty sure I'm using synthetic gear oil. Honestly I'm not too sure, I've had about a million beers since then.
dailydriver
QUOTE (FlatBlack @ Mar 23 2015, 03:58 PM) *
IIRC the Eaton comes with a paper slip that says not to use LSD friction modifiers? Pretty sure I'm using synthetic gear oil. Honestly I'm not too sure, I've had about a million beers since then.



Actually, they tell you to use the friction modifier (even though some who ONLY race the car do not, and live with the carbon clutch pack wear for the sake of better lockup/launch off of apexes), and NOT to use synthetic fluid in their Posi (and Truetracs for that matter) gear oils, even though most do with no ill effects.

Their Posi unit's carbon clutch packs would not last very long in daily street driving without the L.S. friction modifier, sadly. sad.gif
FlatBlack
QUOTE (dailydriver @ Mar 23 2015, 11:58 PM) *
Actually, they tell you to use the friction modifier (even though some who ONLY race the car do not, and live with the carbon clutch pack wear for the sake of better lockup/launch off of apexes), and NOT to use synthetic fluid in their Posi (and Truetracs for that matter) gear oils, even though most do with no ill effects.

Their Posi unit's carbon clutch packs would not last very long in daily street driving without the L.S. friction modifier, sadly. sad.gif


I've put ~2,000 miles on the car since I bought it February 2014. Most of that is highway mileage (i.e. not using the diff) to and from races.

It'll still chirp my street tires on tight turns (parking lot situations), so if it gives me better lockup, I'm all about it. Seems to be working just fine, the car was pretty miserable to race on the blown stock LSD.
Jimbow
When I first bought my case it would also chirp and sometimes bind up in tight parking spots or turning around.

I changed the fluid to Mobil 1 fluid and added about 2oz of ford lsd additive.

The ford stuff seems to work a little better than the other off the shelf additives, maybe because fords need some miracle additive??? Lol
dailydriver
^^^Yes, I also ONLY use the Motorcraft XL-3, or the Ford Racing labelled stuff.

I have been told that the Ford Racing stuff is actually a little better than the XL-3, and that it is NOT the same exact stuff, just in a differently labelled bottle with .20 of an ounce less content, but who knows? gr_confused.gif

I actually pay less for the FR stuff, so I don't care. wink.gif
Racer X
You *want* the diff to be tight for what we do. As tight as possible IMO.

The spare I rebuilt and have on the shelf will either work really, really well or it will self destruct on its first run. I shimmed that sucker as tight as I could get it and still be able to reinstall the spiders. biggrin.gif

And yes, Eaton specifies the LSD additive. The diff oil is the only place on the car where I DON'T use synthetic.
dailydriver
^^^^But the 800# springs (in an Eaton Posi) would be too much for the street, and act like a locker on the track/a-x, correct??
Racer X
QUOTE (dailydriver @ Mar 28 2015, 07:38 PM) *
^^^^But the 800# springs (in an Eaton Posi) would be too much for the street, and act like a locker on the track/a-x, correct??


I've thought about trying heavier springs but after taking the diff apart and holding them in my hands, I seriously doubt the retainer plates would be up to the task.

I don't like wrenching on the car enough to be an R&D guinea pig. wink.gif
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