Thanks, Pat. I agree. I guess what I'm wondering is if the weight between a Z28 and T/A is in the realm of insignificant (<75 lbs) or not (>100 lbs).

I normally would want a Formula or Z28 where I feel the difference is insignificant. However, I may have a really good lead on a Trans Am (hardtop, cloth, low wing, but power seats) for a really good price. I just want to make sure they're not, say 200 lbs heavier than the other F-Bods.

My old rommie's '94 T/A (t-tops, leather, pimped) weighed over 3600 lbs. on the scales without him in it!

Tommy

I ran without my t-roofs in Peru & DC at Nat'l Tours as well. The rulebook says you can remove anything that can not be held down securely....

My SS weighed in at 3350 without me, no roof, small amount of gas, factory rims & tires last year. Obviously my Goodyear Eagle F1's are heavier than Hoosiers. I did have the ST35 bar on as well. The SS does have a fiberglass roof which may decrease a little weight as well.

Not sure why not many T/A's AutoX. Pontiacs are chick cars... did Pontiac offer a 1LE option?

They sure did. Check out www.1le.net and go to Production Numbers.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the T/A's and their factory body kits. Though I don't know for sure how much weight difference there is between a T/A and a Formula. 3,600 does sound kinda porky.

Pat

Here's a list of weights I compiled a while back for a post on another board, from lightest to heaviest:
Z06: 3116lbs
C5 coupe: 3218lbs
C5 Vert: 3245lbs
C4 Coupe: 3298lbs
LT1 Formula: 3311lbs
LT1 TA: 3345lbs
LT1 Z28: 3373
C4 Vert: 3360lbs
LS1 Z28: 3439lbs
LS1 Formula: 3455lbs
LS1 TA: 3477lbs
LT1 Formula Vert: 3489lbs
LS1 Z28 Vert: 3574lbs
LT1 Z28 Vert: 3591lbs
LS1 TA Vert: 3605lbs
LT1 TA Vert: 3610lbs

I believe these are the lightest weights for each model with no options and the earliest year the car was available (some options become standard equipment over the model run). From looking at this a stripper LT1 Formula is the lightest of all the f-bodies, followed closely by the TA and Z28. What's really interesting to note is that the LT1 Formula is only 13lbs heavier than a C4 coupe (of course, the Vette has a much lower cg).

Anyway, I really wouldn't worry much about whether it's a Formula, TA or Z28. Just find the best one for the money. If you can get a good deal on the TA, it would be a great car. Personally I wouldn't settle for anything other than a hardtop due to the extra chasis flex on the t-top cars. I've had the oppurtunity to do a good bit of driving in both t-top and hardtop f-bodies on roadcourse, and there is definitely a difference in stiffness.

The flip-up headlights don't weigh that much, <10lbs. The power anteana is <2lbs and did not appear until 95. Also AC became standard in 96, not 98.

The big spoiler on TA's doesn't weigh much either (its hollow). I take mine off every now and then to wax the bottom and you can easily pick it up with one hand. Its bulky because its so big but I'm sure its not more than 10lbs.

Tommy,

TA's don't weight signifigantly more than any other F-body. 3600lbs does sound high though...

My car's been running Mobil One since I've owned it and currently has 187,000 miles on it. Still doesn't burn oil, still runs strong for a LT1.

I would suspect something else besides oil. A lot of people run Mobil One and DON'T blow engines too.

Actually, AC was standard starting in '96. When I picked up my 1LE car at the dealership, one of the first things I saw were the AC controls on the dash. I freaked, thinking that the dealer had screwed up my order.

Karen

Your right, now I remember seeing a 97 1LE car with AC. Cool.

I wanted to order a 2002 1LE, but, as I remember, you had to buy an SS (mostly loaded as I remember) and then the $3500 1LE package. It became an overweight, $34,000 Camaro. Mine is too loaded as it is (and 3 weeks later a manual window, hard top showed up on the lot for $23,500....I was quite miffed). Mine is "everything but an SS" (sadly) and it should be very heavy. I've not weighed it yet.

I was going to say, I think a lot of these motor failures are due to oil starvation. Starvation is more to blame on the pan (LT1 or LS1) than the oil. However, there are better oils to band-aid this. Redline has around 500-600 something PPM of moly which is an extreme pressure anti-wear additive. Mobil 1 and most over the counter oils have less than 100 ppm moly. The 6-10 times as much moly in Redline offers more protection when the oil film is compromised.

It's a band-aid, but I think it's a good idea in cars that starve. If time and money were not an issue (yeah right) I'd pull my stock LT1 out and add a canton pan and a stock volume pump with a high pressure spring ('69 camaro I think).

It's crap. Jacksonville Nat'l Tour, 1998:

Alex Tziortzis '98 1LE weighed 10 pounds less than the '98 Firebird Formula Dean Sapp was driving. Alex has a CD Changer as the only option. Dean's car had a Monsoon, Power seat, power windows, power antenna, cruise, rear defog, etc. Only other difference was Alex was on Victoracers, Dean on BFG R1's (remember them???).

On the oil front, mileage and all that doesn't matter. There are cars with 200k+ miles on them on regular oil that run great (my winter beater Toyota being one). If you don't have an issue that is going to put undue stress on the oil film you'll be fine with most anything.

All I know is I've seen first-hand a number of oil related failures. All, without fail, have been on Mobil 1. It's not scientific, but it's also not just a coincidence. Doesn't matter to me what you run. It matters to me what I run, and it will never be Mobil 1 again.

Sam, What oil do you use?

Back on the LT1vs LS1.

Here is my dyno on my 99 SS. Cam heads and a "few" bolt ons. Car pulls like a rabid pit bull out of the corners. 430rwhp 406rwtq. And that was through a giant Moser "9. On a 10 bolt, which is back in there now it is closer to the 450rwhp. Didnt get a chance to dyno it because the motor let go prior to be able to get it back on the dyno after the swap. I have yet to see an Lt1 car make the same #'s w/ equivelent mods .
May have to copy and paste link
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid1...da.jpg.orig.jpg

There a bunch of Advanced Induction/Lloyd Elliott stock displacement LT1's making over 400 rwhp with just heads and cam now. I'd have to search CZ28.com for some of the higher ones.

I use Redline for anything that gets pounded, like the Camaro. I used Valvoline Synthetic in my gas trucks, Running Valvoline Premium Blue in my Diesel truck.

Bang for the buck, I'd buy an LT1 car (I bought mine new, last year and all that, or I'd have an LT1). They can be tricky to work on, but you can find them cheap.

Back on topic from the oil debate.....

I drove two F-bodies this past weekend, a '94 T/A and a '98 Formula. I had an issue with both of them, including the '96 SS that I sat in (a co-worker's). When I move my right foot from the gas pedal to the brake pedal, the toe of my shoe catches the underside of the dash! And no, my feet aren't that big (10.5)! This is with sandals or my work/dress shoes on. I don't recall this being an issue the few times I've autocrossed 4th gens wearing racing/wrestling shoes.

It was a major PITA and really detracted from the driving enjoyment. I tried a different heal position, but it was hardly comfortable. Has anyone else noticed this? Frankly, it sucked.

Tommy

I wear a 10.5 shoe as well. If I wear tennis shoes or "small" hiking boots, I don't have a problem. If I wear work boots (Timberland Pro series or Wolverine type) I catch the toe on the panel slightly. You can remove the panel and free up some room if it is really an issue, I think I just learned to pull my heel back and put my foot at more of an angle (I'm comfortable that way) and I no longer hit the panel under the dash.

Not elegant, but effective.

I don't think I've ever noticed this problem, and I've driven a number of LT1 & LS1 cars.
oh, size 13 shoes. maybe my foot motion is different?
couldn't you just trim the panel?

md

I have noticed that (foot hitting the underside) and it is annoying.. I never thought of cutting that either.

But, now I will.

Brian's car is getting lighter again.....

I had this problem sometimes with my 95 Formula, but haven't had it at all with the 97. Doesn't really make sense as they exactly the same under the dash, and I know my feet haven't shrunk. Maybe it has to do with seat position as well as foot position?

That's weird. I've driven 9 different F bodies this year and haven't had issues with any of them (size 11 1/2).

Pat

P.S. You know what they say about guys with big shoes? They have big feet!