And you did the exact same thing about me in a thread I had no involvement in. Why?

If you expect a certain amount of respect from people and expect a certain amount of decorum, maybe you should practice what you so desire.

I vowed to leave you the hell alone, sit down and shut up. I did just that.

But you can't take your own advice and give it a rest ...

And before you go off again, the thread where you posted that had zero to do with anything you have ever told me. I had read a thread in the Ax section about spring rates and made a VERY loose comment about the spring rates I chose were way more than what the masses would even consider.

I don't know what about that comment I need to rest ...

Not everything on the internet concerning F-Body handling is about you, Sam.

This in no way should reflect negatively on what you, Sam have accomplished. Kudos to you, Sam for doing what you've done in the arena you have chosen.

You asked me to give it a rest and I am asking you to do the same thing.

Fair enough?

I am proud to be able to call Sammy a friend. There is not a better person in this sport than him. Five years ago he told me to buck the trend in ES and find a 93 hardtop. Everyone at the time said the 93 was no match for the 91-92...they were wrong. I did not listen to him about the big front bar...he was right and I paid the price. I wish I had listened to him when he offered the original Barney to me....it has taken me over 3 years to find another one.

I would suggest if you have an issue with something, give the guy a call. The only warning...put time aside for the call When I first called about the 1LE, I think we talked (okay, I listened) for 2 hours on the basics. Even when I found the car, he spent time on the phone telling me what questions to ask and what to look for. When people refer to the car as Barney or Barney 2, I just get a grin and can only wish.

Like I said, there is not a better person in this sport. If you have issues with his take on things, pick up the phone.

Hey Sam,

I just wanted to clarify a few things. I've never said that the setup you use can't be fast. It certainly can be as I've said. I just happen to belive that there is a faster setup. Don't take things so personally. A LOT of stuff on this board gets said about me and/or my setup that I could certainly take offense to, but I just let it slide. Just as an example (not intended to upset, just point out how things can be taken out of context and/or blown up).



I could take offense at this since I (along with a few others) help Torsen test the beta version of the T2R and before that the pre-loaded version that never saw production. Before that I ran a beta to the HD that was produced before the SS was released. At that point everyone was still singing the praises of the Auburn Off-Road...



I have always run larger bars, first the 32mm Solid Addco (in '97) with the 21mm GM and then later with the 24mm GM. Now I'm running the 35mm you had Addco make up front since the rate is similar but saves a few lbs (glad you had this one made! )



Again this could be construed to mean that I called you asking why the HD's weren't up to the task since I am now selling "trick" shocks. I haven't ever run HD's so I could jump up and say HEY THAT ISN'T ME!!!!!!



Since I have been one of those who has said that I don't like seting a car up to use bump stops because it is too hard to balance the car front to rear with chaning bump stop rate, I could take offense here too....



Now this again could be construed as aimed at me. Did I jump up and down about how I "invented" PHR brackets back in late '98??? I am of course one of the "some" that thinks they are faster. Note FASTER, not the ONLY way to go fast.

I guess all I'm saying Sam is just ease back a little and take everything with a grain of salt. A lot of things that seem like they are angry or aimed at you may not be. When people like what you've done for them they'll let others know (as many have done for you here). Just because someone tries something that you recomend against, doesn't mean that they don't value your time or opinion. Some people like to for themselves

Jason S.

Edited for spelling (which I really suck at)

Sam,

You, your mom, and your dad have helped me greatly and I appreciate that to no end. Not just with my two cars either but with my customers cars as well. I just wish I did more business so I could call more often. I listened to you on my 96 and everything has worked so far(still haven't done the clutch. its soon I promise) even though I knew from the start that it was a compromise. Its worked very well for me though and Im up to 70+k miles on the setup. Its getting soft so changes will be made again soon i hope.

anyway chin up and don't stop spending time with customers. My boss gets pissed I spend too much time as well. the way I figure it im dealing with somsones $50k car talking about $10k worth of work. the customer really needs to know the consequences of their purchase. you will not find any stage kits availible from me. maybe one day people will realize theres no need to pigeon hole everyone into stages to acheive their goals. theres always more than one way to go fast even around a track.

Nice post Jason,

Like I have said guys....keep it off the personal side and all is well....

I have said a THOUSAND times I have used BOTH Sam and Jason, and will continue to do so....both are a wealth of knowledge in my book....just gotta know how each person's set up applies TO MY set up and what I WANT TO DO...

Half the shocks on my car are Sam's and half are Jasons

All the bars on my car are Sam's (although with a adjustable kit on the rear from Jason)

PHB from Sam

PHB Lowering kit from Jason

HEY, I WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU RIGHT HERE AND NOW......

Thats pretty much how my set up is going. I just received my Strano bars and Panhard rod last week. I am also purchasing a UETA. I am not sure about shocks and springs but I know I will be contacting these guys in January to decide.
I have never talk to or met Sam but I do read most of his posts because of the info I can get. Sam I am sure their are a lot of guys just like me whom you never met but listen to what you have to say, and eventually go with your parts and ideas.

Jason my friend, I have NO issue with you here. None.

For the record.... The T2R was tested by folks but very few knew of it, or could get it. I not only supplied it (sold 90 in the last two years), but stood up and sung the praises of it. And note that I didn't say NOBODY had one, but very few. I went out of my way to FIND a way to purchase them.

We'll have to differ on the bar thing. I don't see 32's as large (since all SS's and 1LE's had them always), and while I see 21 as moderate I think it's not a good pairing with a 32 front. Much like I don't particularly like the 35/25 (or 24) rear bars in concert in MOST cases. You ran moderate fronts, with moderate to large rears. Now you run large bars at both ends, likely due to the other things you have done and I don't.

I didn't say the shock guy was you did I????? Others have called and asked similar things too. But didn't you have Bilstein's on the car with Pro-kits at some point, and clearly that must have happened as you took it to mean you specifically, and I wasn't really referring to you. For that matter I noticed LG started selling "revalves" soon after I did too.

You can like having no stops. You shouldn't take offense. I didn't say it couldn't work, I simply meant the way some went about it with the package it would break shocks. I wasn't wrong about that, and again, never even meant you.

The PHB bracket thing. I wouldn't say was aimed at you. I was simply stating that the idea isn't new. And I had considered it (and tried it elsewhere). And I think if you read the quote I wrote and you used in your post, and do it realizing there was nothing intended as a cut, you'll see where I'm coming from.

Jason and I can disagree and do it without bloodshed, that's cool, and many times I've said that a stiff car can be fast as well. I'm not any more close minded than he is. But because I'm running more convention setup, that's the assumption which is why I mentioned some of the things I did, like my PHB bracket project. Sadly, it's the ASSumptions that get in the way. Jason and I have spoken before and knew right were the other was coming from. And when that is known it makes things easier to deal with. And frankly speaking, I don't seem to have ANY issues with anyone on this board who I've conversed with in person about these subjects. Randy, Jason, Sean, Kevin, the list goes on. The only issues are from those who like to take what I said out of context, twist it and then add the idea that I think I'm a GOD to the top of it all.
The internet can suck, and that's the reason why.

In the end I'm just fed up. I'm attacked, my business can ebb and flow based on some internet hounds half-baked scheme (not anyone here), I'm in the middle of a break-up and moving, winter is setting in. I've just had it up to here (imagine a 6'1" guy with his hand WAY up), and I've reached my breaking point. I censor myself quite often and haven't ever said what I truly thought. I don't really want to, but it's hard when I always the one who's wrong, supposedly.

I didn't start this for pity. I did it to vent, and some of best friends are here, and it also related to some things that stem from this board. I appreciate the kind responses. As for the others, it is amazing how peaceful it is around here sometimes, even when I'm here.

Can you show me where, in what thread? If you want, if not I'll let it rest. I may have, but I'd like to see where I did it. There's been so much going on I can't honestly recall doing it.

BTW I said, and publicly said, that I was GLAD for you. You didn't get anything from me, and we've battled plenty. What part of GLAD for you was so bad. I can't see anything so evil about that.

Sam...................I am a repeat customer and consider you a great source of knowledge when it comes to our beloved f-body's!

You have helped me on a number of occasions and never tried to "sell" me something I did not need or desire.

I consider you a "friend" even though we have never met.

I hope the personal issues get resolved, and wish you and your Company good luck.

As for the staff @ Strano's............What can I say, when I needed parts this summer and you were "under the weather" Aryln made sure they went out the same day............That is customer service.

Fight the good fight, I am a beliver in " What goes around Comes around "

Gary

Some of you may think I hate Sam. I'll just add I ordered a set of Bilsteins for my truck from Arlyn WHILE Sam and I were disagreeing on the lowered panhard brackets in my thread. Not a whole lot of money, but I like to support Sam when I can or when it's something he will sell me.

I had Sam call me up one day at home out of the blue when he saw me posting about diff problems. He spent over an hour on the phone with me telling me how I could get a take off torsen in the mean time and install it myself. When it came time for a T2R I came back to him.

I'm really hoping to be able to show up with my car at 100% next year and get Sam's input on it.

Hey! So now you're talking about me? It was Mobil-1... I only bought it at Wal-Mart

Seriously Sam, I truly appreciate all that you've done for me (and hopefully in the future as well). I'm sure Jeff, Jason, Chuck and Eric from our area feel the same way. Even the person who seemed most critical of F-bodies in our club, Bob Palmblad, switched from his supercharged Miata to use an F-body with your setup.

I didn't realize the personal angst you were experiencing and I hope you're back to your normal chipper self soon I think with minor exceptions the tone of this thread is positive. I think there are a select few dozen or so on this site which really know WTF they're talking about. Unfortunately it's easy to misinterpret thread context on the internet. As you stated, assumptions get made and it goes to h3ll in a handbasket from there.

I sincerely hope all parties involved here can at least understand where the others are coming from, even if different philosophies can't be overcome. Limit it to constructive criticism and explain the theory and real-world applications as it fits the customer. In the end it's the customers wallet, but repeat business will be earned based upon their previous experience. It almost feels like a contest around here to see which vendor gets the customer, and I find that disheartening. Disheartening because this forum seems more like a close-knit family than those 'other' sites. But, business is business.

As I said in e-mail, I don't believe I'll ever acquire the seat time (gene pool? ) to become an excellent driver. I believe it was Lonnie who mentioned in a thread that he was considering selling his car to spend more time with his son. I'm not to that point, but I certainly understand his position.

We need a FRRAX Gathering to get everything together face-to-face and have a good time!

:leaving:

Jon-

I was trying to find the appropriate "beat one's chest" icon last night, but was unsuccessful!!

I have not read the whole thread yet. But let me say this about you Mr. Strano you have went out of your way to return my calls and talk to me at lenght about problems,soultions on my car even when it did not mean a sell for you. One sure phone call took place last week when you explained to me about the rear of my car have "spikes" that felt like it was bottoming out when it was just the shock needed adjustment. That level of service and comment is while I have purchased from you in the past and will continue to do so in the furture.


Keep up the good work.

So I take it the shock adjustment helped?????

I tried to move the lowered PHB/roll center discussion out of this thread. It came out pretty neatly, but if you are missing a post, it's probably here (hope I didn't make too much of a mess).

Thanks!

http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?act=ST&...&f=3&t=6124&hl=

Having read this entire thread, there is only one idea I'm able to conclude from it. It would seem that despite the fact that both tuning and driving performance cars are processes filled with variables and subjective assessments; a good number of people are unable to objectively accept that fact as reality.

Regardless of what we'd like (or would like to believe) the "right way" is most often highly subjective. In a sense, it's somewhat like religious belief: each of us chooses what he wants to believe, (and usually, also, chooses to call truth) and then closes himself to other possible truths. Neither can we all be right, nor all of us wrong. Fact is, choosing to believe or disbelieve has no bearing on truth. The final "proof " is a matter of both individual experience and individual perception.

In a nutshell, I'm not in "Sam's Camp" or "Jon's Camp", I'm just interested in improving wherever and however it's possible for me, personally, to improve. I make progress and mistakes based on what I choose. Anyone who takes my interest on a "personal" level chooses that, for good or ill, on their own.

Yes it did. I am still tring to fine tune everything.

Most of us have our own opinions about what works and doesn't work and in some cases no amount of facts are going to change that opinion.

One thing I have learned from the dirt track racing is that hardly anyone runs the same combination of springs/shocks/brake bias....etc...., but still most setups are capable of winning. It just boils down to driver preference and skill.

What works for one guy may not for another.

After reading through 5 pages all I can say is "wow that was alot to read" .

Never bought anything from sam personally but I've read alot of his threads and have shoved people in his direction, I will also buy my bars from him at some point, I've learned alot of theory at the very very least. He seems to know what's going on and is very willing to help people. But hell, I could say the same thing about alot of people in this community.

Strano----With that said I've appreciated everything you've posted on and wrote, on here and on the "other boards". It's taught me alot. I appreciate the time you spent to write almost everything that you have, you are obviously very good at what you do. Take in consideration that the top dog will have ALOT of critics. It's part of the game. The person on top always gets torn down the hardest. This is the case in every field in the world, from genetics, to retail, to goverments. It's also the critics that help improve the field. If anything I would try to take the criticism as a compliment.