As title says,

what car would you guys get ?
I'm looking for a family car (sedan) with the following goodies:

• leather
• dual-climate-zone
• heated seats
• HIDs
• sun-roof
• leather interior
• decent handling/power
• automatic (wife doesn't want manual)

I test drove the Subaru Legacy GT Limited edition and wasn't impressed.
Although the AWD was good, lighting sucked, and the triptronic was bloody slow to shift. I prefer the Volvo S60 AWD a lot more compared to that one.
Anyways, what would you get as a car and why ?
I'm thinking on SAAB 93-Aero (2.8V6Turbo: 250hp/258tq, 3175lbs) vs SAAB 9-5(2.8I4Turbo: 260hp/258tq, 3670lbs)... pretty much same price, power.
The 9-3Aero is lighter (~500lbs) but less goodies... so might be more fun to drive, but maybe have less value then the 9-5.
It's a car I want to keep for long (10+ yrs), and have no kids YET, but they might be in the picture very soon, hence the decision for a family oriented car (practical)... but I still want something decent to drive... much better than the 94 civic I have.

Anyways... waiting on input.

I drive a '76 Ford Maverick. No payments. No one will steal it. Parking lot dings are a non-issue. Larger dents are handled with a hammer, dolly, and some spray paint. Only costs $250 per year for insurance. The a/c blows 48 deg when it's 95 out. It gets 20-21 mpg avg city/freeway, more when I get an o/d in it. The thing is stone reliable and I'd drive it cross country tomorrow. With larger sway bars, black d-spoke Nascar type wheels and decent rubber plus KYB shocks it doesn't drive too bad either. There's a jackass on the hood and the eyes light up at night. Oh, and I got two bumper stickers. One says Dog Is My Co-Pilot and the other says Drunks Against Mad Mothers. The last one is a favorite with social do-gooders and police officers. My dogs and I go to the park and eat fried chicken, throw the bones out the window, and watch the ducks and grackles go nuts.

P.S It's not for sale to all of you who are covetous of it.

I've got my eyes on a '66 Nova 6 cyl with 79K original miles on it. It's a stick car with a/c. A T-50 5 speed is a drop in for it. I'm waiting for the guy to come up with a price that's agreeable.

Why spend money on a beater when you can spend it on a hot rod.

Go drive a BMW 3 series or 5 series, depending on what size sedan you want. BMWs are driver's cars, and are a joy to drive.

Don't listen to Randy. I don't know anyone that ad the maintenance issues that he seems to have had, and I know a lot of folks with BMWs.

You could help us spend your money if you narrowed the search with new vs. used and a price range. :-)

Jason

every single time I've driven a BMW, I've gotten very disappointed @ it.
in all honesty, even the 3 series is so overpriced... so they are out of the radar scan.
and to answer an earlier question, invest in daily driver so that daily driving is somewhat enjoyable and not a PITA (Pain In The ***)

Believe that the Acura TSX comes in a 4 door configuration. Plenty of comfort, tech, and decent performance.

the new RL from Acura is nice. BTW...the new Passat is nice too. has more goodies than you can imagine.

my mom has an older Altima with the v-6, i think it would give a stock camaro a run for it's money. she averages about 28 MPG and the new ones have an option for HIDs and GPS units. stock 17" wheels and sport tuned suspension, spoiler, leather, stick shifter...it's a sweet ride if you ask me

My Dad is a big fan of SAABs. He's had some pretty good luck with most of them, and one was a real headache. I borrowed his 9000 once to drive to Montreal. Fantastic car for the trip never missed a beat. It was only the CDE with a turbo 4 and an auto. I could drive it every day and be pretty happy, as long as I had something else interesting.

I agree on the BMW front. They are nice, but not that nice. There's tons of them for sale, too. Carmax alone has hundreds. I just don't see how the prices stay so high.

The SAAB sounds like a good choice to me. Only other car I can think of is a WRX, but Subies are a love 'em/hate 'em proposition.

Oh, yeah. Check out the Acura TL, too. Hear nothing but good about them and personally I like the way they look.

only thing about the TSX is that it's quite loud inline-4 (civic-ish)... test-drove it... and would rather spend the extra $ and get a TL

RL is too expensive and big... the Passat I am considering.
As for the Altima, wouldn't consider them, since they don't offer dual climate zone and heated seats.
The Maxima does, but for the price, I think the Volvo S60 is a better choice.
I was actually disappointed @ the Maxima test drive and found that the Accord offers more space, confort, support for less, and is actually more fun to drive than the Maxima.
Nissan is out of picture.

Thanks,
I considered the Sub's, but was more inclined towards a Legacy 2.5GT Limited.
Test drove one this week, liked the AWD, exterior and interior.
Lots of nice things, but the tranny is bloody slow to shift and the lighting isn't efficient on the road... my 94 civic illuminates the road better, and the ABS, when comes on, causes an earth-quake of rattles
so i'm reconsidering the subarues.

Other possibilities I have in mind:
Saab 93 Aero
Saab 95
Impala SS (no HIDs) testdriving tonight.
Accord V6 (no HIDs)
Acura TL
Passat
Hyundai Sonata (no HIDs) seems like a great bang for buck, though
Volvo s60
audi a4

seems like the volvo is the only one that can offer the awd, and at this point, i don't care much if it's only a fwd.
Would be nice if Impala SS was rwd.
before I'd consider any bmw, I'd give a chance to the Mercedes C320 sport... but it's getting $.

1 thing to note is that i'm not in a rush, so I have to come accross a great deal from manufacturer... i can afford to wait.

Pontiac G6 four door GTP... 240 hp, manual shift 4 speed auto, adjustable pedals, etc. Haven't drivenone but heard good things about them.

isn't that mechanically the same as the Malibu SS ?

Could be... I haven't really compared them side by side, most likely they are. I know both 200 hp motors have the electric power steering pump. I was originally looking at the GTP since you can get a 6 speed manual with it, 2 door version instead though. Actually isn't the Malibu SS coming as a wagon too? That may be more user friendly for a family. I looked at the wagon a few months ago during one of the dealer's promotions, not a bad car. Just wasn't the right time to get a new car. Funny thing is that I think the trunk in the 4 door is wider since they don't put any of the plastic interior stuff in it.

unfortunately, I'll have to go with an automatic... wife won't compromise there.
the wagon is the MAXX version and fwiw, we are not interested on wagons... and my wife REALLY hates wagons... lol... I hate minivans.

We bought an '06 Sonata in late August. Plenty of neat features, but we didn't want leather. Plenty quick, but the mileage isn't what I had hoped for....we're averaging 21mpg, but virtually all of it in town, and we only have 2800 miles on it. Handling is fair, although I really haven't pushed it much. The "select-shift" is fun to play with, but it upshifts a little slow. For the money it's a good buy, and the warranty is wonderful.

First off.. what is your $$ range???


1.New Dodge Charger or Chrysler 300C (both can have the SRT-8 option and auto) If i wanted a classy buisness vehicle i would take the SRT-8 300. plus they have RWD!!!

2.Infinity G35 (again RWD + Auto+ 4 doors) ... but the coupes look 100x better

3. Lexus IS350 quite powerful, rwd, auto, 4 doors (or an older IS300.. but they are quite small and less powerfull)

I'd steer clear of a Saab or Volvo due to the price of parts and labor. I'd go with something Japanese.

Well, my sister-in-law just got a Pontiac G6 GT w/ leather and all the other stuff. It is very nice, and handles pretty well. However, I agree with DanO - get the Charger or 300. Nice, powerful, and good handling.

Personally, I decided to go with a Saturn ION3. I got leather, sunroof, XM radio, and every other available option. Total price, plus a 6/72,000 warranty was $22k-ish. I figured that I'd rather spend the extra $$ on house (minor flooding from Katrina-induced hot water heater failure) and turning the ESP Trans Am to a CP/road race car. Oh, and I commute 100 miles (roundtrip) per day, so the 32mpg is nice too!

labor ?
what's that... I'll have car lift in the house being built... noone else is touching my cars apart from myself

I'd liek to keep it under 1k$/month on a purchase of 4yrs, no down.
So basically under 50k$ CAN, tx in
if I can get with 40k$, the better

The Charger is nice: http://www.dodge.ca/en/charger/
The R/T starts @ 39k$ + tx
the SRT-8 Charger starts @ 46k$ +tx

little note: tx here are 15.025% so it adds up quickly.
So a base SRT-8 will cost me $53k + wanted options (2k$) = 55k$
@ 5% financing, that's 1,035$/month for 60months... a bit steep, although I would love that car.

Cars are very expensive in CANADA compared to US.

RWD, although I would love to, keep in mind my wife ain't a driver and very panicky... ie, will slam on brakes if anything happens, and get herself in trouble... she's not a driver, but a commuter

btw, test drove 2 cars today
Malibu SS and the Impala SS (same dealer I bought the SS)
Anyway, started w/ Malibu and liked it overall... quite peppy and fun to drive, but lack of refinement.
Get in Impala, much more refined and a bit more powerful (5.3 v8) but that thing needs new shocks and maybe some h/c someday
Only thing that pisses me off for the Impala is that the dual-climate zone is manual, not electric and no triptronic, while the Malibu has them... and the triptronic/tranny of the Malibu is much better than the one from Subaru.
Ironically, the Impala SS felt slow but the #s climbed decently... guess it's very smooth.
Tomorrow I'll be testing the SAABs and we'll see from there.
I'll have to check the Sonata one of these days as well.

As for prices, if any of you go to websites, instead of .com, use .ca for candian version, it'll give you a good idea.

I noticed all cars are a little slow on the upshifts, but some are insanely slow... like you can have almost 2 seconds (at least 1+), no kidding, like the subaru.
21mpg.... hmmmm.... that means 11.2 l./100km which is pretty good.
If I like the handling and overall feel of it, I might just go for it, since it's quite cheap compared to the others and offer the best warranty.
I'll have everything except HIDs
0$ down will cost me $700/month for 4years.

Hey Eugenio,

Are you living in toronto these days or montreal? If you want a lexus/toyota car, lemme know.. I have a good friend who works as a marketing mgr at their head office that can get employee discount or first crack at the exec demo models.

Mike.

well... Toyota has nothing to offer that gives some fun back while behind the wheel.
Lexus in the other hand might have 1-2 options available.
I'm in TO this week-end... and will be going to the Detroit AutoShow on sunday.
Will you be @ the party on saturday and/or going to the show on sunday ?
if so, let's talk.

went to take a look @ pontiac dealer to see the G6 up close and personal, and the GrandPrix GXP seems quite interesting... much better option than the Impala SS.
same price, same engine, has triptronic, has auto/dual climate zone vs manual.
I'll have to test it, but have the guts feeling the handling will be better.
hmmmm.... something to think about.
Anyone driven it ?

1st thing that comes to mind is replacing rotors for non-drilled blanks and put other pads...

I say go for the Lexus IS350

When I see beater I think cheap, but it's obvious that you aren't looking for cheap but a nice 4 door sedan that handles. I'd suggest looking at the Infiniti G35, it's available as the G35X which is all wheel drive since you're concerned about your wife driving a rear wheel drive car.

Sadly I traded in my 02 Camaro SS on an 06 G35 6MT. I'll be running it this spring in D stock. So far I've been very impressed with the car. The handling is very good and the stability control/traction control can be turned completely off. Even when engaged the stability control is not nearly as invasive as the Charger R/T that I drove. It will allow a little bit of tire squawk and tail out driving.

Other than that possibly the Audi A4. Be wary of the price since the option sheet is long and costly. Also Audi does not have the best reputation for reliability. My wife had a 99 A4 1.8T with the sport package and it was a fantastic car, but we did not want to keep it 1 day past the warranty.

When I was looking I wanted something rear wheel drive, manual transmission with handling good enough that I could autocross. I looked at the new 3 series BMW's, Mercedes C-class Sport, Audi A4, Dodge Charger and Infiniti G35. The BMW's were overpriced with mnile long option sheets. I also learned that the only bigger prick than a BMW driver is a BMW salesman. The Mercedes C-class had great handling but was just dog slow unless you stepped up to the C350 which is 6k more. The Audis were nice but no one in town had quite what I was looking for. The Charger was a little scary to drive. Great acceleration and high handling limits but no seat of the pants feel for what the car was doing. Kinda' like playing Gran Turismo on Playstation, the only sensation of speed is the scenery moving really fast.

The Infiniti offered what I thought was the most performance for the money. The car I got is a "stripper", a manual transmission with absolutely no options. But even then the manual transmission comes with the upgraded suspension and it has leather, heated seats, and power everything.

Hope all this helps.

That's not fair! I'm probably a bigger prick than most BMW salesman. Actually, I've never bought a car from a BMW dealership, and from my experiences with the local probably never will, at least not from them.

Jason

... I'm probably going to kick myself for the flaming I'm going to get. So please be gentle.

This is an F-body based forum, a GM product. I know most of us aren't happy with GM right now due to their lack of eye catching products, but I'm sure they make something you wont hate forever. Especially if you're looking for a daily driver. Because we're F-body enthusiats, I'm kind of surprised more of us aren't recomending more GM products.

If GM really doesn't do anything for you, then there's always Dodge and Ford. At least they're mostly made in North America even if Dodge is half German now. Our jobs are leaving for cheaper labor because not enough people are buying American products. Now there are going to be those who say there is a reason for that. If you really don't like something made in America then I wont argue. We all have our reasons. Personally I would rule out EVERY car made in America before looking elsewhere. If this keeps up everyone who moves here in hopes of a better life will wind up homeless along with the rest of us.

Lets face it, most of the stuff we buy outside of food is made overseas. I know we're all looking for a deal, but I don't really understand how we can still have jobs left since it looks like we buy everything made overseas. I'm usually not this political so I don't have all of the numbers or statistics and I know some people make way too much, ruining it for the rest of the company.

Having said that I can say I haven't done my part yet, all of my cars have been used. But I do what I can to my neighbors help out.

Howdy,

My civic was made in the US.

Sure, the profit probably goes back Japan, but there's a shitload of good old US citizens employed that made my car.

Just, you know, pointing that out.

Mark

(unlike, for instance, GM with their Canada or Mexico or whatever plants)

...no.....DO listen to Randy.....

NO BigMoneyWastes allowed!

Yeah, I meant to bring that point up too. At least it helps out our economy some, besides just at the dealers.

I think GM went to Mexico since that's what everyone else is doing to stay alive, I can't agree with that either. As for Canada, I guess I consider them America Jr. so it doesn't bother me. As for the Austrailian GTO, at least it's kind of sporty and I think it was a desperate attempt to try selling something instead of nothing. Hopefully the next generation will be built here, probably beside the next Camaro.

Sorry to offend Jason but my experience with the BMW dealer just further reinforced my BMW stereotypes.

First I had to ask "permission" to test drive the car from the sales manager. It was the only manual transmission car with the sport package that they had on the lot.

Then I had to listen to the salesman berate my Camaro for the entire length of the test drive and tell me how superior ther BMW was. I finally had enough of it and challenged him to autocross for pink slips me in my Camaro and him in his precious BMW. He wouldn't take me up on the offer because I was a "professional" driver as he was merely and enthusiast and it wouldn't be fair.

Did I also mention the prescribed 5 minute test drive with the constant backseat driving by the salesman? "Sir, you're exceeding the speed limit!" "Sir I really wish you would not rev the car above 3,000 rpm!" "Slow down for the upcaoming turn!"

The salesman had absolutely no technical knowledge. I asked the difference between the 325 and 330. His response was that the 325 had the 2.5 litre motor and the 330 had the 3.0 litre motor. I then asked if that was the case why did the window sticker specifications for the 325 that I was driving said it was a 3.0 litre motor. He then said the difference in power output between the 2 cars was due to tuning and the two had the same size motors. He had no answer when I asked what kind of tuning the additional 6K price for the 330 bought.

Then there was the discussion with the sales manager when I got back about ordering a car to my specifications. He explained that there was a $2,500 non-refunadable deposit up front which I thought was too much but could understand. Then the kicker was that any trade-in would be negotiated upon delivery of the new car and not at the time the deposit was made. I asked specifically what would happen to the deposit if we could not agree upon the trade-in amount. The response was that it was a non-refundable deposit and if I didn't agree to their offer I would forfeit the deposit.

The sad part was I actually liked the 325 better than the Infiniti G35 that I bought. However, the only car on the lot had about 6k in useless options like $1500 for "deluxe" plastic wood trim. In order to get the car to be within my price range I would have had to order one. I was not willing to do that with their terms. After dealing with them, I really wouldn't care if a BMW was the last car on the planet, I still wouldn't buy it.

Im stuck at home this wkend (still sick from last wk.... )

If you are interested in the lexus - the new IS is pretty nice - give my buddy eddie ng a buzz @ eng@toyota.ca and tell him you are friends with mike ma. he'll hook you up.

[quote=2000Z-71,Jan 13 2006, 18:17] Jason [/QUOTE]
Sorry to offend Jason but my experience with the BMW dealer just further reinforced my BMW stereotypes.
[/quote]
Most salesmen don't know jack about cars. When my mom bought her Blazer the guy said the Dexron III coolant lasts for 100K miles. But in his defense he was an ex-football player for the Giants and some other team, so he was probably knocked around enough to excuse the mistake.

I can also see that dealers don't want just anyone to go for a joyride and they always belittle your trade in. Even if they say it's in great shape, they'll screw you when it comes to playing with the numbers.

Dodge Ram..........built in Mexico.

Z-28 Camaro.......built in Canada. (And a lovely car it is too!)

Hyundai Sonata..built in Alabama.

When an American company moves operations overseas we bitch. When a foreign manufacturer sets up shop in America, the temptation is to gripe because "they're taking over". As long as it's employing Americans, it is an American company.

I covered that in my reply to marka, it sucks no matter how you look at it.

Does anyone know how much of an 'import' is actually imported when assembled here? I mean is the sheetmetal stamped over there and welded together here, what about the engines?

This is funny - I really wasn't looking to keep my business "local". I just wanted something to haul my butt 100 miles per day and still let me keep the T/A. What do I end up with? A GM product built in Tennessee! Didn't even mean to.

I'm not sure how much of the car is actually built here. A few years ago, some American built Hondas were sent back to Japan and compared to those built there. Surprisingly, the US built cars were considered to be the better built of the two. It is darn near impossible to find an "All-American" car these days.

My $0.02...

I had one of THESE and really liked it. Trust me, the wife will like it. Mine only went away for the Corvette now occupying my driveway. PLUS, if you get a used 'Select' version, the warranty goes to 6yrs/100k miles.

Or a one or two year old CTS-V. :drive:

Volvo S60 R

And the availability to make it go fast is there.

Yikes... like it, but too pricey.
For that price, I rather get other cars first, such as the CTS-V, even a used one from a local friend of mine that is considering selling it... car is 2 year old and would be selling for 1/2 price... but i need automatic.

I think I made up my mind.
It's an american car, and built in CANADA
Last car was a Camaro, built in QC... the one I'm thinking is built in ON, our neighbours.
Price is a tad on the steep side, but great value/fun/features... great bang for the buck... now I just need to take it for a test drive
Just hope I won't enjoy it more than the SS...

Last I checked Canada & Mexico were part of "America".


Not sure about the other cars. I went on tour of BMW X5 / Z4 plant in SC. Steel (sheet metal) was sourced locally from Spartanburg Steel. Source of raw material is unkown to me. But what's funny is most people think they are buying a German car when almost all of it is made here in the US.

Another comment. I'm not for unions, but alot of the foreign car companies have been able ot operate non-union plants here in the US and that gives them a significant cost advantage over the Big Two. The other things that are most likely killing GM / Ford, etc is the pension benefits that they are paying out. They have many retired workers from before the automation. It doesn't take anywhere near as many employees to build a car now compared to 40 years ago.

And the commments about at least they are assembled here... well what about the designers? the drafters? the engineers? etc, etc. What about all those workers you are taking away their jobs b/c you buy an import. I got no problem doing manual skilled labor, but I paid alot of money for a piece of paper that might won't mean squat if all the technical jobs are overseas.

And another comment. About those who say alot og the GM vehicles are made in Canada - Eugenio is from Canada, don't you think he would like that?

ok rant off

:stupid: ...and most importantly profit.

agree... and as a matter of fact, i would push the envelope and say I hate unions... they distroy whatever is good, and no longer look for the good of the employees, but their own agenda... ie political power.
Apart from that, I would really like to support the local economy if possible, as long as I get something that serves my needs.
This weekend, while thinking hard on a model i like alot, north american model, I found out it was made/assembled in Canada, in a city close to Toronto... that made me very ... I think it's in Brampton, ON, CANADA.... I could be wrong... bad with names.
Anyways, the price is a bit steep, but with some $aving$, I'm ok.
It's a rwd car with only 425hp stock but has all the goodies @ decent price... great bang for the buck... now I need to convince the wife to go black instead of silver.

btw, this week-end @ Detroit show, saw some Mopar performance parts available for the SRT8... nice exhaust, with resonators instead of mufflers for the center mufflers and no rear mufflers.
Under warranty and can have it on delivery of the car, installed by dealer and warrantied
thinking on getting that and the cold air intake package, as well as the stage-2 program with faster tranny shifting. ~+50hp
in winter, put back the stock program... and either way, always under warranty

should be a hell of a FUN beater :drive:

what you guys think compared to this: