How to go from horrible to respectable?, help a newb out Options

[atakacs]

Ok it's like this: At my last AX I was probably 6 seconds slower than the avg for my class, ESP on what was mostly a 50-60 second course. Most cars were mid to low 50s and a Z06 even ran a 49. My best was a 60. I am literally one of the slowest drivers at the event. I'm on stock tires which I know sucks, but... even when I let a buddy drive my car, he got a better time than me the 1st time ever driving it so I know it's me, not the car. I mean... there's a guy in a lightly modified CTS-V on street tires that gets better times than me!!!

I ran a few AXs last year... 3, maybe. How can I improve or practice without spending several years doing it? We get so few runs per event and then I couldn't attend the local driver's school, and I'll miss about 4 of the AX events over the summer for work as well as the EVO school. I thought about setting up some cones in a Wal-Mart parking lot after hours but I'm sure the cops would show up in no time... so I tried something different. I got a Logitech/Momo racing wheel & pedals for the PC and a few driving games/simulators like NFS and GTR2. I'm not sure how good they are at making you a better driver... unfortunately I think they made me more cautious, not more competitive.

So what do I do? I'd like to be competitive by the end of the year and recognized as the most improved this year. Do you think there's any hope?

This post has been edited by atakacs: May 11 2007, 08:21 PM

[Mojave]

Step 1: Seat time, go to every event possible, out of town events, etc
Step 2: Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry Watts, buy it, read it, and then read it 10 more times
Step 3: Start taking solo seriously, ride with fast drivers, walk the course with fast drivers, walk the course two or three times, have fast drivers ride with you and give you feedback
Step 4: If money and time, get to an Evolution School. They aren't cheap, but worth every penny if you are serious about getting faster.
Step 5: More seat time

Edit: I now see you can't make the Evo school. Try and make it anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Mojave: May 9 2007, 05:45 AM

[KeithO]

Good advice. Also, check your local event venues for "Test and Tunes". We have a few T-n-T's per year locally. You typically get more runs than your tires can take.

Also, this place:

http://www.beaverun.com/

has a lot purpose-built autocross pad. They often have informal autocrosses where, again, you can run so many times that you run out of tires.

I don't know where you are located so I don't know if this is useful to you.

FWIW, the majority of improvement for me came from an in-class competitor riding with me and allowing me to ride with him. It was a great relationship until I beat him once. Then no more rides. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[Jeff97FST/A]

Course walks.

Like our Novice Chief says, "It's like voting, do it early and do it often".

Find an experienced member to walk with. Have them give you pointers (pardon the pun) during the walk if they're willing. You're probably late on every element. Do every thing earlier than you think you should. Do you feel yourself reacting to the cones as they appear in front of you?

[sgarnett]

Edit: I now see you can't make the Evo school. Try and make it anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you absolutely can't make the local school, drive to one you can. Stay in a hotel if you have to.

[z28jeff]

Probably the cheapest, fastest, and easiest way to figure things out is riding along with faster drivers, and have them ride along with you. I didn't do this when I started out, and it took me years to get decent. I've helped a few newcomers in the past two years, and was amazed at how much progress they made in less than a full season. Most newbies don't realize how aggressive you really need to be, and riding along with a faster/more aggressive driver shows them what a faster run should feel like.

[CrashTestDummy]

Work on the driver first, the car second! If there is a problem with your times, it is probably due to to you, not your car. Fix that first, keep your car maintained, and then start upgrading as you gain experience and can tell if a new part helps or not.

Read all you can about it. Re-read often. There is more to the sport than it looks, and it takes a while for much of it to soak in. Here is a link that has links that may help:

http://sccaforums.com/programs/autocross/a...sshandbook.aspx

Seat time is seat time. Like horsepower, you can never have enough seat time.

[CMC #37]

What these guys said! Do the driver mod...instruction as much as possible and seat time, seat time, seat time! Set goals for yourself each time you go out. Don't know what goals to set? Run it by someone who is a consistent driver. How did they get that way? Take notes or better yet keep a diary on your progress. What worked, what didn't? This goes for your mental approach as well as car set-up. Racing is a very mental game. You must come out with a winning attitude to do well. Negative thinking is poison - say what you can do, not what you can't. Have a short memory for mistakes after you have learned from them.

Most folks have the ability to drive well. A few take to it quickly. Most of us need to persevere in order to be a good driver.

[slowTA]

I've been autocrossing for 10 years and just started getting competitive last year or two. Mostly because I had to sit out half a season for one reason or another, so I just did it for fun knowing I would be able to devote more time to it eventually.

Have you spun the car or come close to it? I'm not saying this to be macho or anything, but sometimes people need it to loosen up and see just how far the car can go. The car might be a lot more capable than you think! I'm also not saying you should go and spin the car just for fun either.

Good luck and keep us up to date.

[DavidDymaxion]

In addition to what others have said:

See if you can get a better driver to codrive your car for a day. I did this with someone in our club, and they immediately jumped from lower 10% to mid-pack, and are now in the upper 1/3 of times. For me, I improved alot after the EVO school.

Playstation GT3 and GT4. The driver's tests I think are especially good, as well as the test tracks. I highly recommend a force feedback steering wheel.

You might not be as far behind as you might think. I assume you have a Camaro? A CTS-V has 100+ hp on you, IRS, and bigger wheels. I have found race tires to be good for as much as 5 seconds improvement on a 60 second course. It is probably worth giving everything a good wiggle, and make sure nothing is loose on the car, and having the alignment checked. Did you copy a proven ESP setup, or did you mod on your own? Suprisingly small changes to the car can make it difficult to drive well. I did an AX alignment (max neg camber), and then the front stuck, but the car oversteered (lots of air in the front tires fixed that, and I'm hoping my new strano bar is the right fix for it). I put on race tires, but the car would suddenly spin out without warning (I think it was topping or bottoming out) -- but some Strano koni shocks fixed that and the car is much gentler now.

Did you transition from a front wheel drive car? I was able to drive my FWD near its limits soon. It took me a while to learn "slow in and fast out" with my Camaro. It has taken many AXs to master the car, but boy is it rewarding to drive! I'm still learning.

This post has been edited by DavidDymaxion: May 10 2007, 05:52 AM

[Unbalanced Engin...]

There are three things that will make you faster.

1. Seat time

2. Seat time with someone who knows what should be happing there to help you

3. SEAT TIME.

Don't mess with the car much if at all until you have some more under your belt. I've instructed a few who have made their cars too fast too early and it took them longer to learn because they just couldn't drive the car at a limit that high.

Jason S.

[atakacs]

Guys, thanks for all the input. Some of it is really helpful.

Step 1: Seat time, go to every event possible, out of town events, etc
Step 2: Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry Watts, buy it, read it, and then read it 10 more times
Step 3: Start taking solo seriously, ride with fast drivers, walk the course with fast drivers, walk the course two or three times, have fast drivers ride with you and give you feedback
Step 4: If money and time, get to an Evolution School. They aren't cheap, but worth every penny if you are serious about getting faster.
Step 5: More seat time

Edit: I now see you can't make the Evo school. Try and make it anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

1-going, 2-got it, read it, will re-read it, 3-I do... know anyone in the OH area? 4-I'm working on getting into the EVO at BeaveRun on May 26th, 27th but 26th is full and I'm on a waiting list. 5-How can I get more seat time when there are so few runs? 4 runs *60 seconds = 4 minutes a week, assuming I go every week???

...Also, this place:

http://www.beaverun.com/

has a lot purpose-built autocross pad. They often have informal autocrosses where, again, you can run so many times that you run out of tires.

I don't know where you are located so I don't know if this is useful to you.

-Thanks for the tip. I'm going there for EVO School on 26th, 27th if I can get in. Are you going to be there?

Edit: I now see you can't make the Evo school. Try and make it anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you absolutely can't make the local school, drive to one you can. Stay in a hotel if you have to.

Thanks. See last reply.

...Have you spun the car or come close to it? ...

Yes... I spun it once last year and DNFed because I left course a few times. Not this last time, though... I didn't hit a single cone. I'm wondering if I became more (too) cautious? After every run I thought to myself, I should have pushed harder... but to my newb senses, it felt like I was always at the verge of breaking loose.

In addition to what others have said:

See if you can get a better driver to codrive your car for a day. I did this with someone in our club, and they immediately jumped from lower 10% to mid-pack, and are now in the upper 1/3 of times. For me, I improved alot after the EVO school.

Playstation GT3 and GT4. The driver's tests I think are especially good, as well as the test tracks. I highly recommend a force feedback steering wheel.

You might not be as far behind as you might think. I assume you have a Camaro? ... It is probably worth giving everything a good wiggle, and make sure nothing is loose on the car, and having the alignment checked... Did you copy a proven ESP setup, or did you mod on your own? ...
Did you transition from a front wheel drive car?

by codrive do you mean I drive, he drives my car, etc? Are they allowed to drive more than one car on race day?
I have GTR2 for the PC and a Momo/Logitech FF wheel.
I have a WS6... read sig (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Everything is tight... car is a low-mileage '02. I'm planning on getting an alignment before the next event. My mods are minor: a STB and a battery relocation.

My wife's car is a FWD but my last car was an automatic '98 Z28.

This post has been edited by atakacs: May 11 2007, 08:18 PM

[RVachon]

What they said, and if you want to practice using a sim, Playstation stuff are games, not sims. Get GTR2 or rFactor for the PC and turn off all the driving aids.

[Blainefab]

I'll repeat a few things that have been advised here, but in a different order:

Ride with a good driver. Do this soon so you start emulating good technique rather than trying to invent your own.

Look at where the good driver is looking - it won't be straight ahead or even at the next corner - it will be at the exit of the next corner or beyond - at the entry to the corner after that.

Look ahead - DNF'ing because you are lost is likely from not looking ahead. The brain needs to know where it is going in order to plot a course. Peripheral vision will take care of knowing where the car is and what direction it's pointed. I had been street driving for 30yrs before starting autox and the looking ahead thing was the most difficult part to learn, and the most rewarding to accomplish. It took a concerted, constant effort, but improved my autox, RR track, and street driving. I also made fundamental changes to my driving position and car placement as I relearned how to drive.

At an intermediate skill level, some folks can get by pretty well with memorizing the course during the walk(s), but on some courses memory won't help much compared to the visual cues from looking ahead. A lot of emphasis is put on analyzing the course during the walks, but my hunch is that a good driver can do quite well without a walk.

Seat time - gotta go to schools. Local clubs, Evolution, whatever. Lotsa seat time. Riding in the passenger seat does count as seat time. There usually is a new driver course walk led by an experienced member - ask that person who to ask for rides, they can help hook you up.

Don't do much to the car except maintenance items and making sure brakes are working properly and tire pressure is in the ballpark. Stick with street tires till you are smooth and comfortable at and beyond their limits and can recover gracefully from sliding either or both ends. R rubber too soon can stop a drivers development cold.

[KeithO]

atakacs - I won't be at BeaveRun for the Evo school. I took Phase 1 (or whatever it was called) 2003... However, I plan to start running quite a few autox events this summer in the Huntington/Charleston/Parkersburg WV area in my street WS6.

Good luck!

[DavidDymaxion]

Yes, one car in AX can have 2 drivers. Generally this means they are driving your car for all their runs that day. Some regions will let you give up one of your runs to have someone else drive, or you can have another driver during fun runs.

I obviously didn't read the fine print (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif) (the sigs don't show up in reply mode), sounds like you have a good machine. I still wouldn't assume everything on the car is fine, potholes, hitting a curb, etc., could mean something needs to be replaced already.

Regarding someone else's comments on GT3/GT4 on the Playstation: Why don't you think they are sims? The physics seems really good. My only complaint is you can ram other cars or staionary objects without damage or slowing your own car.

by codrive do you mean I drive, he drives my car, etc? Are they allowed to drive more than one car on race day?
I have GTR2 for the PC and a Momo/Logitech FF wheel.
I have a WS6... read sig (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Everything is tight... car is a low-mileage '02. I'm planning on getting an alignment before the next event. My mods are minor: a STB and a battery relocation.

My wife's car is a FWD but my last car was an automatic '98 Z28.

[Mojave]

5-How can I get more seat time when there are so few runs? 4 runs *60 seconds = 4 minutes a week, assuming I go every week???

Fun runs, practice events, double entry. Any/all of these can help get you more seat time. Some clubs, like PCA and BMW, give more than 4 runs. Run with them when possible.

[atakacs]

5-How can I get more seat time when there are so few runs? 4 runs *60 seconds = 4 minutes a week, assuming I go every week???

Fun runs, practice events, double entry. Any/all of these can help get you more seat time. Some clubs, like PCA and BMW, give more than 4 runs. Run with them when possible.

By double entry do you mean me entering as a driver twice? Can that be done? Like when a ride is shared except I share it with myself? Does anyone do that? Does anyone know if OVR allows that?

[Mojave]

5-How can I get more seat time when there are so few runs? 4 runs *60 seconds = 4 minutes a week, assuming I go every week???

Fun runs, practice events, double entry. Any/all of these can help get you more seat time. Some clubs, like PCA and BMW, give more than 4 runs. Run with them when possible.

By double entry do you mean me entering as a driver twice? Can that be done? Like when a ride is shared except I share it with myself? Does anyone do that? Does anyone know if OVR allows that?

Yes, you drive twice. I know Houston SCCA does it, and we (Texas A&M Sports Car Club) have done it on a limited basis. Talk to whoever is in charge, and see if they will let you drive again if you help setup and tear down. Many clubs will let you get away with murder if you help tear down at the end of the day. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The way it usually works is you drive once as normal in your normal class. Then, you drive again, in another heat, usually in a different class (I know Houston SCCA has DB class, which is only for double entered drivers). The second time around you aren't competing against anyone in your normal class for points, just getting a chance to get more seat time.

This post has been edited by Mojave: May 12 2007, 04:12 AM

[Joe Silva]

our local regions(kansas/salina/KC/wichita) allow you to run twice as long as you work twice. Work 1/drive 2/work 3/ drive 4......This is what i did and it seemed to help me alot, I still do it from time to time. It really allows you to get some reflection while working the second time to see some of your mistakes and think about it, plus a chance to correct them!

SEAT TIME is the best way to making you faster, i also like the advice of allowing a better driver ride with you or co-drive with you in the same heat.

[atakacs]

Guys, I went to another AX today at Ohio Valley Region and I am still miserable. Fast time of the day was 40.x Most faster cars were 44.x My personal best was a 51.0. I wasn't the slowest car of the day... someone ran a 60. I asked about double entry at registration and I was told no. 5 runs = $30 & a 2 week wait for more runs (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm taking almost 3 weeks off and hopefully I will get a few events in during that time, including an EVO school at BeaveRun. I'll keep you updated.

Thanks for all the support.

[CMC #37]

One thing you gotta correct is putting yourself down so much! At this point your goal should be to not be last, you were not, so pat yourself on the back! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) One step at a time. Set REALISTIC goals and be glad when you achieve them!

[z28tt]

When you're driving, do you notice mistakes? Things like "oh crap! I should've braked earlier, now I'm pushing through this corner, and don't have a chance to jump on the throttle early for the straight?", or does every run feel perfect until you see your time? Try running at 80%, and don't turn up the speed until you get it perfect. Only 5 runs makes it hard, but at least start slow. It's much easier to go a little faster for the next run where you've noticed there is room on the table, but if you've gone too fast and screwed up a corner, it's hard to know where to slow down more.

I always make a little map when I walk the course, with every cone. I memorize it, then run the course in my head while in staging. If you don't have to think about where to go next, you can focus on improving the driving, rather than reacting to the course. After your run, you can add notes on where your brake point is (or needs to be), turn-in, apex, where to go slow, etc... With so many corners on an autox course, it's tough to remember the corners that are critical, and messed up your last lap. This way you won't make the same mistakes twice.

Looking ahead. Your car is going where it's going, so no point focusing on the hood. Look past the current corner to the next one, so you can think on how to handle it, where to brake, etc... Videotape yourself driving, so you can see your helmet, and if you're looking ahead.

Has an instructor ridden with you? When just starting out on a complicated course, having someone there to yell - "left, left, right, BRAKE!" help offload some of the thinking so I could drive, rather than get overloaded. Have you ridden with anyone else? Get as much time in a seat as possible, even if it's as a passenger. It'll help you get more familiar with the course, and see where you need to do things.

Forget about messing with your car. Get the tire pressures so they don't roll over, and then focus on the driving. When working the course, watch how other folks go. The fastest guys usually look slow, since they're smooth. Don't toss the car around, slide it, etc... Slow in, and fast out. You don't make up time solo racing in a brake zone.

[gopanoz]

Get some used rims and some used race tires whenever you can. But don't compare times just yet. Are the other cars you are going up against prepared fully to the rules?

Seating position is a big thing that I believe gets overlooked to often. In the ax book it has has some good info about it. On every occasion that I have riden with a newbie, I have had to correct their seating position. Sit up straight, arms bent, 9 and 3 o clock grip, hand on shifter only when shifting, and shuffle steer!!

[TrackAddict]

Guys, I went to another AX today at Ohio Valley Region and I am still miserable. Fast time of the day was 40.x Most faster cars were 44.x My personal best was a 51.0. I wasn't the slowest car of the day... someone ran a 60. I asked about double entry at registration and I was told no. 5 runs = $30 & a 2 week wait for more runs (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm taking almost 3 weeks off and hopefully I will get a few events in during that time, including an EVO school at BeaveRun. I'll keep you updated.

Thanks for all the support.

You were over three seconds faster than me. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm right there with you, aiming for that "Most Improved" award. Of course, that means improving.

I've made out a calendar of events within a two hour drive of Columbus for the summer. If you want, you can run every single weekend between now and September, at least. There are events in Cincy, Dayton, Columbus (obviously), Toledo, Akron and Cleveland. BeaveRun does occasional weeknight events, and there are a few weekends that you can double dip and hit both Saturday and Sunday.

Miami Valley Sports Car Club is running this Saturday night at the Nutter Center. I'm probably heading down there with a friend/co-driver. You're welcome to caravan along, if you like. There are also events in Toledo and Cleveland on Sunday.

Thanks to all of the experienced guys with their comments, particularly the part about resisting the urge to get on faster tires. I have a used set of Azenis asymmetricals sitting in my garage looking for a set of rims (they were free). At what point should I ditch my off-brand all seasons (treadwear 480 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) ) and graduate into those? I won't even think about running Hoosiers this season, as I'd rather spend the money on entry fees and gas.

This post has been edited by TrackAddict: May 15 2007, 06:33 PM

[atakacs]

You were over three seconds faster than me. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm right there with you, aiming for that "Most Improved" award. Of course, that means improving.

I've made out a calendar of events within a two hour drive of Columbus for the summer. If you want, you can run every single weekend between now and September, at least. There are events in Cincy, Dayton, Columbus (obviously), Toledo, Akron and Cleveland. BeaveRun does occasional weeknight events, and there are a few weekends that you can double dip and hit both Saturday and Sunday.

Miami Valley Sports Car Club is running this Saturday night at the Nutter Center. I'm probably heading down there with a friend/co-driver. You're welcome to caravan along, if you like. There are also events in Toledo and Cleveland on Sunday.

were you at the last OVR AX? Are you in Columbus?
I'll be at Ft. Lewis, Washington without my car for 2 months courtesy of the U.S. Army
Ugh... and I read this Saturday night...

[atakacs]

sure bet local driver's school or take a chance at EVO?

Both NW OH SCCA and BeaveRun are having schools on the 26th... BeaveRun is a 3.5 hour drive, a phase 1 Evolution School which I am not locked in to but at the top of the waiting list and the fee is $250, I think. The NW OH SCCA school is locally run, a 3 hour drive and only $26 I think.

Is the EVO school worth the extra cash, and drive?

[atakacs]

If I don't run on R-compounds, should I run in STU instead of ESP?

[Blainefab]

Thanks to all of the experienced guys with their comments, particularly the part about resisting the urge to get on faster tires. I have a used set of Azenis asymmetricals sitting in my garage looking for a set of rims (they were free). At what point should I ditch my off-brand all seasons (treadwear 480 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) ) and graduate into those? I won't even think about running Hoosiers this season, as I'd rather spend the money on entry fees and gas.

I'd go ahead and use the Azenis now, hard all seasons have to be terrible

[rickshank]

sure bet local driver's school or take a chance at EVO?

Both NW OH SCCA and BeaveRun are having schools on the 26th... BeaveRun is a 3.5 hour drive, a phase 1 Evolution School which I am not locked in to but at the top of the waiting list and the fee is $250, I think. The NW OH SCCA school is locally run, a 3 hour drive and only $26 I think.

Is the EVO school worth the extra cash, and drive?

Personally, I think the Evo schools are worth every penny. Have you registered for either site's Evo School? They're pre-register only, as class sizes are limited. If you haven't just keep getting seat time. If possible, get some passenger rides from other people, that can open your eyes to what they're doing different. If your region allows it, get some experienced folks to ride with you during your runs. That will help a ton.

[TrackAddict]

were you at the last OVR AX? Are you in Columbus?
I'll be at Ft. Lewis, Washington without my car for 2 months courtesy of the U.S. Army
Ugh... and I read this Saturday night...

Yes, and yes. My f-body is in pieces right now, so I am running a Nissan NX in G Stock.

Sorry that you missed the event -- running at night was interesting, though it just made the learning curve that much more steep. There was a black 'vert running in ESP, too. You guys would have had a good battle going, I think.

When will you be able to run again?

I'd go ahead and use the Azenis now, hard all seasons have to be terrible

Oh, they are. My co-driver won our class last night on them, though, beating several cars on Hoosiers. Don't ask me how he did it.

I'm picking up a second set of wheels this week, so I'll have them mounted and available to me before the next event. I may go do some empty parking lot testing somewhere on them in the meantime.

[atakacs]

Personally, I think the Evo schools are worth every penny. Have you registered for either site's Evo School? They're pre-register only, as class sizes are limited. If you haven't just keep getting seat time. If possible, get some passenger rides from other people, that can open your eyes to what they're doing different. If your region allows it, get some experienced folks to ride with you during your runs. That will help a ton.

I tried to register but the phase 1 is full at BeaveRun but the guy said I was at the top of the waiting list and there were still a few spots open for the phase 2. I asked him to put me in for both but I haven't heard back from him.

When will you be able to run again?

I'm going up to BeaveRun this Wednesday 4-7 PM for their open practice and going there Sat. if I can get into the phase 1 and 2, otherwise it's the NwOH school on Sat. and OVR pts 3 on Sun.

[trackbird]

were you at the last OVR AX? Are you in Columbus?
I'll be at Ft. Lewis, Washington without my car for 2 months courtesy of the U.S. Army
Ugh... and I read this Saturday night...

I was going to come out and meet you (I already know trackaddict), but I realized that the last event was at the drag strip and I didn't have the time to travel out that far to say hi. However, pm or e-mail me for the next event you're attending and if it's in Columbus, I'll try to come ride with you. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but I might be able to help you out a bit. If I'm lucky, I'll have a car by then (though it will be under braked and on street tires for a little while), but I'll probably come drive it until I get it sorted.

And, yes, the EVO schools are worth it (though I haven't managed to attend one, I know many people who have and I know a few of the instructors and have seen them drive). Any schools you can attend are worth it. If you can do Evo and then a $26 SCCA school and attend them both, do it. Seat time is good.

[atakacs]

I was going to come out and meet you (I already know trackaddict), but I realized that the last event was at the drag strip and I didn't have the time to travel out that far to say hi. However, pm or e-mail me for the next event you're attending and if it's in Columbus, I'll try to come ride with you. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but I might be able to help you out a bit. If I'm lucky, I'll have a car by then (though it will be under braked and on street tires for a little while), but I'll probably come drive it until I get it sorted.

OK... it's either the EVO school at BeaveRun or OVR Pts 3 for me on Sunday. If you need a car, we could double drive mine. I bet I'd learn a lot.

[trackbird]

OK... it's either the EVO school at BeaveRun or OVR Pts 3 for me on Sunday. If you need a car, we could double drive mine. I bet I'd learn a lot.

Unfortunately, I'll have to pass on the co-drive for this event. I have a friend coming into town and I'll be picking him up at about 9am at the airport. He's a fellow autocrosser and maybe we can both stop by and I can take a ride or two (or three) with you. If not, I'll try for the next event.

If you can get into the EVO school, go there as your first choice.

[atakacs]

Guys, an update from the front:

I invested in a Cruisecam mount to mount my vid camera so I could review my own races and see my flaws afterwards. (I also figured out that w/ a 7" LCD screen, I could even watch my last run in my car before my next run!) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I got an alignment yesterday. I asked for a -1.0 camber, 4.5 caster and neutral toe. The Firestone dude said it wasn't possible? I guess it would have to be lowered to get a -1.0 camber? Anyways, the end result was about -0.1 camber, 5.0 caster and neutral toe... not far from where I was to begin with, but it is nicer on the highway - not sure about AX.

Today, I made the 3.5 hour drive to BeaveRun for some AX practice. It went well... I think a few more of those and I'd be feeling pretty comfortable. I used the Cruisecam and my camera to film most of the laps. I'll watch them soon.

I'm signed up for NW OH (Toledo area) SCCA school for this Saturday. It's another 3 hour drive. I got told a big fat NO for EVO phase 1 (full) but the organizer is going to talk to the EVO guys and see if they think it would be ok to attend the Phase 2 on Sunday after the Saturday NWOH SCCA school. If not, it's a 20 minute drive to OVR pts 3 for me. 3 big things in a week... I should be making some progress.

Does anyone know if it's ok to run/rollerblade/ride a bike through the course in the morning or would that be considered cheating? I typically run a few miles in the morning so I was thinking of running through the course. Rollerblades, on the other hand might give me an even better feel for the course. Thoughts?

[Blainefab]

I'm signed up for NW OH (Toledo area) SCCA school for this Saturday. It's another 3 hour drive. I got told a big fat NO for EVO phase 1 (full) but the organizer is going to talk to the EVO guys and see if they think it would be ok to attend the Phase 2 on Sunday after the Saturday NWOH SCCA school. If not, it's a 20 minute drive to OVR pts 3 for me. 3 big things in a week... I should be making some progress.

If the EVO school is still the same as McKamey, I'd say don't do phase 2 before phase 1. They build on each other, and you need to have the basics from phase 1 down pat before taking phase 2. The SCCA school will be fine, and running a regional the next day will be great.

[atakacs]

I drove 3 hours today up to NwOH's driver school. I got a lot of seat time. I started getting pretty good. After progressing from skills to a course, one of the instructors said I had a great line and that it was the best ride she had all day... and that was my first lap. Then it seems like I became the go-to guy. I gave 4 different instructors rides and they said I was doing very well. One had no suggestions for improvement on one of my laps, which made me feel great. The track was fast , with larger turns and more straight than I was used to at OVR. It was also raining on and off all day, so the track was slick, but I felt like I was really learning to control being on the verge of being out of control... that's a start, right?

Well tomorrow, it's OVR Points 3 for me. Maybe I convince my wife to let me go to Miami Valley's AX on Monday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I'll keep you updated.

[TrackAddict]

I drove 3 hours today up to NwOH's driver school. I got a lot of seat time. I started getting pretty good. After progressing from skills to a course, one of the instructors said I had a great line and that it was the best ride she had all day... and that was my first lap. Then it seems like I became the go-to guy. I gave 4 different instructors rides and they said I was doing very well. One had no suggestions for improvement on one of my laps, which made me feel great. The track was fast , with larger turns and more straight than I was used to at OVR. It was also raining on and off all day, so the track was slick, but I felt like I was really learning to control being on the verge of being out of control... that's a start, right?

Well tomorrow, it's OVR Points 3 for me. Maybe I convince my wife to let me go to Miami Valley's AX on Monday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I'll keep you updated.

Hey Andre, good meeting you this weekend. Did you check the results on OVR? You won the novice PAX this week, so I guess the seat time helped you out a little. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Did you make it to Miami Valley?

[atakacs]

... Did you check the results on OVR? You won the novice PAX this week, so I guess the seat time helped you out a little. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Did you make it to Miami Valley?

Huh? It looked to me like there were 6 novices that beat me... or am I reading it wrong? I didn't go to Miami Valley... I figured 3 all-day AX events in 5 days time was as much as my wife could handle.

I do, however feel that I'm making progress... When I looked at my performance, it's hard to judge from one event to the next, but... on Pts 1 this year, 90% of the drivers across all categories had faster times than me. At Pts 2, only 80% had faster times than me. At Pts 3, only 76% had faster times than me... So it could be inferred that I'm making progress, or it could be chalked up to a faster course for which my car is better suited or maybe there were more newbs as the season progressed... I'm not really sure. The strange thing is that I made more progress between 1 and 2 than 2 and 3 which is when I did the BeaveRun and the NwOH school.

I think I'm doing a better job of looking ahead and controlling the throttle now but I still have to do a lot more.

I don't know why but I didn't ride with anyone this time. Probably because I finished my runs early and also the last few times I asked, everyone said they wanted to drive alone.

BTW, the next AX practice at BeaveRun is this Saturday, 10-4. Are you going?

And what are the URLs for Miami Valley and your own site?

[trackbird]

Sorry I didn't make it out to this one. My company came in town and we were busy with various things all day. I realized it was "today" when it was way to late to stop by.

Marks site is:

www.trackaddicts.net

[TrackAddict]

... Did you check the results on OVR? You won the novice PAX this week, so I guess the seat time helped you out a little. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Did you make it to Miami Valley?

Huh? It looked to me like there were 6 novices that beat me... or am I reading it wrong?

Sorry...they updated it. Their preliminary results didn't have all of the other novices listed, and you were at the top of the group at the time.

Google search is only giving me http://66.116.162.213/ for MVSCC. Maybe someone forgot to renew a domain name? Anyway, that IP works for them. I'm not sure what the real domain name is supposed to be. My site is Trackaddicts.net.

Still deciding about BR on Saturday...I do need to get up to NE Ohio to pick up that extra set of wheels for my car, so I could get that done on the way home. I think that the only other event going on this coming week that's near us is Akron SCC on Sunday.

This post has been edited by TrackAddict: May 29 2007, 01:23 PM

[atakacs]

I thought I'd give everyone an update on my progress and thank those of you who offered up some good advice and point out the things that really seemed to be helping me in my 1st season.

In an attempt to gauge my progress, I use 3 different sets of numbers. Since ESP isn't a popular here, I look at my overall standing in the PAXed times for each OVR event. I also compare my progress to that of my only real consistent competition in OVR's ESP, Matt, a STI driver and also supposedly novice.

OVR Event # FTD PAX ESP pts
1 145/161 151/161 35
2 107/131 106/131 52
3 94/123 90/123 64
4-6 (did not compete)
7 98/135 92/135 77
8 87/101 83/101 25 (spun and hit 3 cones in the rain, total of times counted for points, not best time - which killed me here. Matt didn't compete this day but Bill had me by almost 3 seconds on a ~38-40 second course anyways.)

I also attended 2 days at Beaverun AX practice, 4 events in NWR region while assigned to Ft. Lewis, WA over the summer, and 1 day of driving school at NW OH region.

In my first AX of the year, I generally sucked and was one of the slowest cars in the field. As you can see by the FTD, PAX and ESP scores, I've been making steady progress. I consider pts #8 an anomoly since for this event, the times for all runs were added and one bad run or a spin would pretty much kill your scores.

The best thing of course is seat time in my car. I think I did somewhere around 100 runs so far this year in all events. Thanks for the tip about Beaverun. I got more track time in one 1/2 day of BR than a good 6 AXs. And the best thing was that I could change my line or push a braking, turning or accelerating point from lap to lap and not feel the pressure to compete and I could do enough runs to finally get comfortable and consistent, knowing what my car was capable of instead of estimating. By the end of the 2nd day of BR, I was less than 3 seconds behind the fastest car there on a 35-ish second course. And I was still on street tires and a stock suspension. I also attended the school at NW OH (toledo area) which was not a bad thing. I got to refine specific skills like accelerating through a turn, the slalom, etc and about 10 runs in a short course. It was worth the 3 hour drive each way. All of the Evo schools during the time I was available within reasonable driving distance were full.

The next best thing is probably seat time in the racing simulator GTR2 along w/ a Logitech/Momo force feedback wheel & pedals. It taught me to be smooth w/ the throttle and brakes if nothing else... to roll into throttle as I straighten out of the turn instead of stomping on it, maximizing the traction circle. I also realized what I thought was the racing line... wasn't. It also drives home the absolute precision required to maximize the racing line. This helps you immensely in that aspect. It's comparatively dirt cheap. For the cost of the gas it takes to go to BR and back and the entry fee, I was able to pick up the wheel and the game was only $20 if I remember correctly. The great thing about it is I could get simulated seat time when I wanted, not just when there was an event. Games like the NFS series, although fun are nowhere near as realistic or helpful in teaching you.

Secrets of Solo Racing by Henry Watts proved to be a good book, although I'm not much of a reader and I found it a little dry for my post y2k mind. It's good but could be updated w/ better diagrams or photos... and more of them.

Additionally, while I was up at Fort Lewis, WA, I took 4 opportunities to drive a rental car at NWR AXs including a cadillac DTS, chevy aveo and V6 mustang. They all helped me get some seat time and also showed me a bit what it was like to drive cars that handle differently. The Aveo was great for teaching me to use a more speed conserving line, since it was so underpowered as well as begin turning smoothly but early since the suspension was very soft.

The only mod I did so far this season was an alignment to the maximum negative camber allowed by factory specs (.1 degree, I think) and neutral toe. My stock tires were bald on the outside inch and I reverse-mounted them last night for daily driving.

Next steps:
I think my newb senses are giving way to intermediate skill and I think I will honestly appreciate a better suspension and tires now. I'm going to make the jump to lightspeed and shell out some cash for upgrades - a set of 17x11s, some used v710s in 315/35/17, and probably a Strano handling pack 4 for starters. I know I could get a lot more consistent on my stock suspension and tires - I'm not saying the suspension & tires are the only things holding me back, but while I'm making leaps and bounds in my progress, I want to continue to build on that learning curve instead of risking plateauing on my current setup. I also feel it's time to stop destroying the stock tires on my daily driver and if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

I'm still looking at going to an EVO school... but I really don't know when I'll get a chance to do that. I want to compete in the next 3 OVR events and some of my other weekends will be filled with work-related duties. I'll probably be headed back to Iraq in a year or less and I need to spend some quality time w/ my wife and kids. I can't spend ALL my weekends auto-crossing. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Thoughts/ Comments?

[sgarnett]

I need to spend some quality time w/ my wife and kids. I can't spend ALL my weekends auto-crossing. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Wise choice (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CrashTestDummy]

I'll probably be headed back to Iraq in a year or less and I need to spend some quality time w/ my wife and kids. I can't spend ALL my weekends auto-crossing. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Thoughts/ Comments?

Get them involved. My best mentor/instructor is my co-driver. It also makes the parts purchases a little easier. After the events we review the video and discuss our runs, which also helps. Additionally, autocross is a GREAT way to teach car control to kids.

Oh, and maybe this little link will help:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

[atakacs]

Get them involved... Additionally, autocross is a GREAT way to teach car control to kids.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) FUNNY! I should have mentioned my kids were 15 months and almost 3! I'll stick with teaching them Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars for now (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)