[sgarnett]

The Senate, UAW, et al, just gave up (ie failed) on reaching a compromise a few minutes ago.

I don't know how GM will come out after bankruptcy (they just hired the bankruptcy lawyer), but the stock market futures are looking ugly tonight. It actually held up well through some dismal recent employment numbers, but I suspect tomorrow is gonna be ugly. Rebuilding my retirement is going to mean austerity and no new cars for a very long time, and I suspect that will be true for many others. That can't be good for any automaker.

I'll admit I wasn't convinced that bridge loans to March could solve the problems for GM, so I don't claim to know what the right answer was. Nevertheless, this is going to be a big kick in the teeth for the economy.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Dec 12 2008, 04:07 AM

[94bird]

Considering I work at GM doing engine calibration I suppose my opinion on this whole mess could be considered biased. Given I go to work every day and we all talk about the possible scenarios we could be facing in coming weeks, I'm a little burned out on discussing the issue.

However, the biggest point I see that just flabbergasts me is how GM is not initiating any kind of positive PR campaign. The misconceptions so many people have about the domestic car industry and how it's stuck in the past, and all we make are trucks/SUVs, etc. are just mind boggling to me. The information is out there, but most of the public has to be fed this info. They won't go out and find it themselves. None of the Detroit 3 are doing much positive PR to the public right now. I'm sure they're doing it in Washington, but that method obviously isn't working.

I also want to point one thing about this argument that a Toyota that is made here is just as American as a GM car that is made in the US. That is simply not true, not even close. Where the car is made, is only a very small part of the picture. Of course, I'm an engineer, so my opinion may be biased here too, but Japanese cars are almost exclusively designed in Japan. There are engineering centers here in the US, yes, but they are just minions to Japan. Toyota has an engineering center in Ann Arbor, a suburb of Detroit, but the powertrain engineers are basically a liason to US based suppliers. They do not engineer the parts. Most of the engineering done in Ann Arbor is for vehicle crash safety, dynamics, and some vehicle calibration, centered on having emissions testing support for EPA testing. So, when you talk about Toyota cars being just as American because they are made here, remember, the jobs that Toyota has here in the US are decidedly low in tech and on the totem pole vs. what the domestic auto companies have here. As foreign auto companies gain ground here, those higher tech jobs are being lost. Do we really want to replace engineering jobs with manufacturing jobs? Is that a net gain for our country?

[mitchntx]

I also want to point one thing about this argument that a Toyota that is made here is just as American as a GM car that is made in the US. That is simply not true, not even close. Where the car is made, is only a very small part of the picture. Of course, I'm an engineer, so my opinion may be biased here too, but Japanese cars are almost exclusively designed in Japan. There are engineering centers here in the US, yes, but they are just minions to Japan. Toyota has an engineering center in Ann Arbor, a suburb of Detroit, but the powertrain engineers are basically a liason to US based suppliers. They do not engineer the parts. Most of the engineering done in Ann Arbor is for vehicle crash safety, dynamics, and some vehicle calibration, centered on having emissions testing support for EPA testing. So, when you talk about Toyota cars being just as American because they are made here, remember, the jobs that Toyota has here in the US are decidedly low in tech and on the totem pole vs. what the domestic auto companies have here. As foreign auto companies gain ground here, those higher tech jobs are being lost. Do we really want to replace engineering jobs with manufacturing jobs? Is that a net gain for our country?

I'm the one that brought it up and I went back and looked to make sure I didn't say that the American assembled Toyata was just as American as your GM. I didn't say that and would never assume that.

I did say ...

The vast majority of cars sold in the US are actually assembled here by US workers. And if discussing profits, publicly traded companies means that everyone, US citizen or not, can get a piece of that pie. But, bottom line, if Toyota wants to continue to employe 50,000 US citizens at it's San Antonio assembly plant, then that is 50,000 people bringing home a pay check.

Yes, the high tech jobs are going elsewhere and have been for years in multiple industries and disciplines. There can be only 2 reasons for it. Better talent or lower costs.

Toyotas are assembled here because of lower costs.

It's a tough nut to swallow, but I believe the myth that we Americans are over-paid when compared to a global work force is becoming a reality. And these econmic times are the fall out from that.