Oil cooler help LT1 Options

[CrashTestDummy]

Changing the oil often is a great recommendation. I've always heard that if the engine overheats, change the oil. Probably a great idea, as you can start cooking the good stuff out of the oil at elevated temps.

[nape]

Well what I'm afraid of is I'm running a stock Y pipe that I'm pretty sure is touching my canton oil pan. Just running around town I'll see 220 degrees. I'm afraid because of that, my oil temp will be way high. But if you had no problems with the temps you saw, maybe I will be fine. I was planning on running Rotella synthetic 5w-40. I use that in my diesel, boat and M3. It's a great oil.

K.I.S.S.

Change the oil after every weekend if you see elevated oil temps. Figure the cost of oil + filter vs. oil cooler + plumbing (and replacing all of it if the engine happens to send shrapnel through it).

Your y-pipe pre-heater is good on the street if it gets the oil up to 220 degrees and cook off the condensation in the oil. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Steve91T]

One thing I didn't mention is I have an unused oil cooler sitting in the garage. I was thinking a cheap adapter and some rubber oil lines and some fitting would be all I need. But, if you guys think I can get away with just changing the oil then I'm all for it.

So on a bone stock 120k junkyard engine, what are the max temps you'd like to see before you back off and let it cool?

[CrashTestDummy]

Oil, or water temps?

[Steve91T]

Oil, or water temps?

Both. When am I going to do damage. I know there's really no hard number, but there has to be a general number for both.

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Feb 29 2016, 04:16 AM

[mr.beachcomber]

Oil, or water temps?

Both. When am I going to do damage. I know there's really no hard number, but there has to be a general number for both.

Rule of thumb that I use for any engine, DD or race, is never let the water temperature hit 260F. If it does, cool the engine down using forced air (all my engines have electric fans) or cut if off completely. I take my water temp off the cylinder heads and run a mechanical gauge in the race car for an instant response. (It's scary the first time you chill the engine in the pits only to see the water temp start rising to 230F or so!)

For oil temps, I use 230F max for conventional (dino) oil and 280F for full synthetic. These are safety limits only. Most oil can handle further heat, but I don't want to push it. (I ran dino oil in the B Production Vette in the 70's and pushed the envelop out to 250F. Changed the oil and filter after every race weekend, but still found an incredible amount of sludge in the engine when it was time for a rebuild. Racing oils back then didn't have any detergents in them to reduce the amount of ash build up in the combustion chamber.)

During the 80's I switched to RedLine synthetic for the race car and Mobil 1 for the DD. RedLine tech support suggested running their oil up to 300F on a regular basis; but change it if I exceeded 320F. (They also recommended a minimum oil temp of 185F during racing conditions so don't over cool your oil.)

[CrashTestDummy]

300, wow. I thought I read somewhere, and absolutely do not remember where, that if the oil temp got around 375, that was hot enough to start really softening the babbit material on the bearings. Depending on where you measure the oil temp, there are parts of the engine that could be pretty close to that temp.

[Blainefab]

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ear-510erl

Would something like this work? I don't think I have time to try to find a used part.

No - that one only has 3/8" ports, you need 1/2" here. Get the Canton piece, and get the Canton block adapter replacement too. The OEM block adapter is pot metal, it will crack if you hang anything on it.

Nothing fits great here, esp if headers are close. My SOP is to remote the filter.

[Steve91T]

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ear-510erl

Would something like this work? I don't think I have time to try to find a used part.

No - that one only has 3/8" ports, you need 1/2" here. Get the Canton piece, and get the Canton block adapter replacement too. The OEM block adapter is pot metal, it will crack if you hang anything on it.

Nothing fits great here, esp if headers are close. My SOP is to remote the filter.

Ok well since I'm changing to an ls1 later this year, I'll just skip the cooler and keep an eye on the temps.

[Steve91T]

Well my oil pan pre heater works well. The oil temps skyrocketed. It would jump to upper 200's and eventually get to about 315. It seemed to stabalize there. I was running a good brand new oil and only for a few sessions so I didn't worry about it. But I have to do something before my next event. I don't even want to know what the temp of the oil in the pan was.

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I really want an LS1 soon, so spending any money on this current engine is a waste. I briefly considered long tubes and a full exhaust, but it's not worth it.

Maybe it would be better to just have a shop cut the crossover pipe and bend a new pipe in the same location, just bent down and away from the pan. Shouldn't be very hard to do.

[bubba353z]

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I'd try this first

Jegs

[Steve91T]

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I'd try this first

Jegs

Yep I think you're right. I didn't even think of that.

Thanks

[Blainefab]

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I'd try this first

Jegs

Yep I think you're right. I didn't even think of that.

Thanks

Don't beat on the pan - there is 'stuff' in there. The OEM Ypipe is pretty sturdy stuff, I don't think you'll get much clearance without mangling it.

IIRC I've sliced and added about 1/2" to the Ypipe near the drivers side manifold junction - that pushes the crossover down and away from the pan.

the Ti thing is cool but a piece of thin stainless sheet and a couple hose clamps will work for a whole lot less $$. Set it up with an air gap between the sheet and the Ypipe

[Steve91T]

I think I'll drop the Y pipe and go to town with a BFH to give me some room, although I know it's not the right thing to do.

I'd try this first

Jegs

Yep I think you're right. I didn't even think of that.

Thanks

Don't beat on the pan - there is 'stuff' in there. The OEM Ypipe is pretty sturdy stuff, I don't think you'll get much clearance without mangling it.

IIRC I've sliced and added about 1/2" to the Ypipe near the drivers side manifold junction - that pushes the crossover down and away from the pan.

the Ti thing is cool but a piece of thin stainless sheet and a couple hose clamps will work for a whole lot less $$. Set it up with an air gap between the sheet and the Ypipe

Sorry, I meant beat on the Y pipe, not the pan.

Im thinking about lowering y pipe enough to install header wrap then bolting it back up. I'll be able to see how effective it is by driving it on the street. If that doesn't work, I'll have a shop fix it properly.

[Steve91T]

So tonight I loosed the Y pipe and wrapped the y pipe with headed wrap I picked up from autozone.


(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/82D64828-C3B5-42C1-BCD4-A3F342202BCF_1.jpg)


I took it for a spin, excited to see how much it lowered my oil temps. The result? Zero. Nada. Zilch. Not a single degrees difference. Oil temps went right to 220 while just gently crusing around. Then I got on it a couple of times and they went straight to 230+.

I don't get it. I thought for sure it would have done something.

What else can cause high oil temps?

[nape]

What were the water temps? Where is your oil temp probe (pan, after cooler, etc)?

[Steve91T]

What were the water temps? Where is your oil temp probe (pan, after cooler, etc)?

Water temp measured at the head was 190. Oil temp is taken from the unused port just north of the filter. No cooler.

[mr.beachcomber]

....I took it for a spin, excited to see how much it lowered my oil temps. The result? Zero. Nada. Zilch. Not a single degrees difference. Oil temps went right to 220 while just gently crusing around. Then I got on it a couple of times and they went straight to 230+.

I don't get it. I thought for sure it would have done something.

What else can cause high oil temps?

Oil pooling in the heads and engine's lifter valley would cause higher oil temps as a smaller amount of circulating oil is handling all the heat from the engine. I'd check both heads and make sure the oil drain back holes are working properly, e.g., no debris blocking any of the holes. If you're using the engine valley oil baffles standoff tubes, I'd take them off as they tend to pool oil in the lifter valley and the amount of oil windage they reduce isn't worth it on a non-race engine.

If oil drain back isn't a problem, and you're not using the oil for any type of piston cooling, I'd next look at a partially stuck oil bypass valve in the oil pump. (You should have noticed a decrease in operating oil pressure if this did in fact happen though.)

Finally, I'd use a bore scope to check the Moroso oil pan's baffling to make sure that you are pooling oil behind a swing gate or baffle.

Hope this helps.

[Steve91T]

....I took it for a spin, excited to see how much it lowered my oil temps. The result? Zero. Nada. Zilch. Not a single degrees difference. Oil temps went right to 220 while just gently crusing around. Then I got on it a couple of times and they went straight to 230+.

I don't get it. I thought for sure it would have done something.

What else can cause high oil temps?

Oil pooling in the heads and engine's lifter valley would cause higher oil temps as a smaller amount of circulating oil is handling all the heat from the engine. I'd check both heads and make sure the oil drain back holes are working properly, e.g., no debris blocking any of the holes. If you're using the engine valley oil baffles standoff tubes, I'd take them off as they tend to pool oil in the lifter valley and the amount of oil windage they reduce isn't worth it on a non-race engine.

If oil drain back isn't a problem, and you're not using the oil for any type of piston cooling, I'd next look at a partially stuck oil bypass valve in the oil pump. (You should have noticed a decrease in operating oil pressure if this did in fact happen though.)

Finally, I'd use a bore scope to check the Moroso oil pan's baffling to make sure that you are pooling oil behind a swing gate or baffle.

Hope this helps.

How do I check the drain holes in the heads? Pull the valve covers? And what about the oil baffle standoff tubes? I don't know what those are.

Oil pressure is very good. 40 -60 hot.

I know I have over filled the oil by probably 1 quart. Maybe I'll drain some and see if that helps.

Maybe I should just install an oil cooler.

Thanks for your help. I've got another track day next week.

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Apr 1 2016, 03:01 PM

[Steve91T]

My oil press is 60 psi at 2000 rpm when hot. Almost 80 when cold. Is that a little high?