I've been thinking, and since this is general discussion.... Options

[Sam Strano]

I was just pondering what things I've done that were the same old, same old in terms of my business and car setup stuff. I'm tired of hearing that I'm out only sell parts, and will do so by any means necessary. I'm tired of having quotes laid at my feet that are taken completely out of context. And I've been called a liar (just recently in a thread about the A-Sedan cars at the Runoffs).

So I've thought about it, and I'm posting a response.

First let me address the notion that I think in this little tiny box and don't try things. Here's a breif list of things I've tried and have WORKED with regards to the f-body, particularly the 4th gen:

1. The T2R. How many ran the T2R before I showed up? Very few. How many even realized how important a LSD that works is to the handling as well as the traction of the car? Next to none.

2. Large front swaybars as well as "intermediate" rear bars in combination. Before me everyone used a 32mm front bar. Some stayed 19, some went 21 rear. A very few who were never fast went to big bars at both ends. I ran a 35/21 combo first (and did it before SLP did, starting in late '99).

3. Started the education on shock valving... Before me you had HD's and SLP's and Koni's. Only the Koni's capable of damping the spring most of us run, but most folks were cheap, didn't know any better, or fell for a sales pitch that HD's are just fine. Even some folks who are now selling "trick" shocks were on the phone with me as little as 2 years ago wanting to know why HD's weren't up to the job.

4. Showed that removal of the rear bumpstops can cause shock failure, and proved it more than once. And I stuck with it despite being shouted down a few times....

5. Showed that the evil bumpstop is really more of a bump rubber that does eventually act as a stop, but that with proper shock tuning it works simply as supplemental spring, but one that does NOT return energy like a spring does. You might disagree, but there are plenty of points proving the STOP doesn't spike you spring rate, and even a cool video Rushman took that showed that rear axle never bangs into them (of course he has good shocks, a decent ride height and good spring rates).


These are some of what I've done that worked. I've tired a number of things that have not worked, and because they aren't made very public it's assumed I haven't tried them. That's simply ignorant, and sadly ignorance can be contagious. :stupid:

Here's an example.... I made drop PHB brackets way back in '99-2000. In an effort to calm the tail of the cars (and folks on this board have seen them, they aren't vaporware). While messing with designs to get the strength I wanted/need from the, I stumbled across a few things that were at the time outside the box ideas that did the job I was seeking. So the re-engineering of the wheel I was going to do, wasn't necessary IMHO. Some think it is, and that's fine. But if you don't know me, and haven't been privy to conversations with me, you really should not assume you know all the details of my life and business. And when I say the Tom Aquilante Racing A-Sedan cars at the Runoffs, *I* was the one who checked them out. Not anyone else here, and when I found what I found what I did, I was abused for it because it happend to pretty closely resemble that tact I take. You can bet if it had been the "other" ideas I'd have been driving into the ground about that. Damned if I do, damned if I don't with some people here. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

I just wanted to take the time to clear my head of some of this stuff. There are somethings going on in my life right now that make me wonder why I pour my heart into my work and my hobby like I do when I'm attacked for giving my opinion and have the gall to try and back up my claims. And it sucks.

The other thing that makes me differnet, and I've think I've been kind of a pioneer of is the way I recommend parts. I look around at the different boards and never, NEVER see anyone else saying "I don't feel you need this part" or some such example. I call a spade a spade, often to the extent of making smaller and sometimes NO SALE. And I'm that turns me into the slick used car salesman type. That's truly sad, and very dis-heartening.

Unless this thread is deleted, I'm going to bookmark it. That way the next time I hear about how selfish I am, or how I just push a prepackaged setup with the inference that it wasn't worked on and worked on very hard, etc. I can just put in the link... Much like I've had to do with the link to the Bilstein catalog into to dispell some of the rampant misinformation some folks spread about Bilstein HD's being so great for lowering springs.

EDIT: I want to add this in no way is to say that other opinions are not valid. Much like I thought out of the box, others are now doing. The point is simply there are very few truly new ideas in the world, and a number of the ideas out there now are not only not new, but have been tried many times before. This is not a statement on what works or doesn't in theory, or even what can be made to work, well or otherwise.

This post has been edited by Sam Strano: Nov 14 2005, 03:42 PM

[John_D.]

Well said. I'm glad you got some of this stuff off your chest. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You've always been very helpful, to many different people. You do put a lot into this. I appreciate that.

I'm glad this forum is here and we do get so many different ideas.
It's been said that every song or story has already been written before...
That's sort of true but there is always a new twist, a new chord, new circumstances, new combinations.
A lot of tried and true stuff, yet we're all still pioneering in a sense too.

[trackbird]

Unless this thread is deleted, I'm going to bookmark it.

No reason to delete it....I hope I don't have to lock it later, but I don't see any reason to delete it.

[RedHardSupra]

Sam, you rock!

long version: first few time we talked you spent HOURS explaining stuff to do without making me feel like a newbie, a customer, or a 'walking wad of cash' that normal salesman do instantly.

your suspension is THE ONLY part of my car that I haven't had issues with.

you're the only salesman ever that told me what i _don't_ need.

that's just off top of my head, and now i gotta run.

thanks for everything,
Marcin

[Tony99SS]

It's certainly tiresome and unrewarding to get up and do it again, day after day, when one drives home left with the notion that he is unappreciated, misunderstood, perhaps even something of a whipping boy. I guess I'm lucky that my sense of self worth (at least that part of it which identifies with my vocation) hinges almost solely on my own very critical eye. I am, by far, my own harshest critic. It rarely matters one iota to me what my coworkers or even my supervisors think of how well I do my job. I KNOW I am doing the best I can. Moreover, I know I am doing it better than nearly all of them could do. If they disagree, I will invite them to try on my size 12 steel toed boots for a day while I sit back and learn whatever they think they can teach.

Naturally, this 'attitude' earns me the reputation as arrogant, even something of a snob (I work in the oilfield, surrounded by roughnecks and rednecks.) And I grant you it can be lonely. It must be even more so in Sam's situation, where a mans livelihood and his passion are so intertwined. I mean, he can't exactly escape the injustices of the office through his automotive hobby, can he?

I've observed these pissing matches quietly, all the time wishing the participants could see themselves from where I stand. It could actually be the source of a great deal of humor here if everyone weren't taking themselves so seriously. This is supposed to be FUN!! A certain PoliSci professor of mine would have said " we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that." He was SO intense and dynamic! But as passionate as he may have been, and as vehemently as he would debate, he would never digress to undermining his opponent's dignity. No matter how wrong they were.

There is room here for dissent, divergent theories, and incompatible philosophies, but it is too small a space for disrespect. You guy's have all done your time. You all have the credentials to back up the public profile. You all have something to say (within this context at least) worth hearing. So agree to disagree. And lighten the hell up on each other.

Tony

[rmackintosh]

Sam,

I am truly sorry you feel this way. You were a TREMENDOUS help to me when I first set up my car with a ZERO KNOWLEDGE BASE of the Camaro and what I wanted to do with it. I still have parts from you on the car to this day! And I still call your mom for all the consumables....ie Hawk rear pads, etc......that I can during the course of the season.

That said, it makes me sad that a lot of threads involving you and some "others" always seem to turn out nasty. I hope that from now on all parties involved in this can "be the bigger person" and not result to little needling comments, or responding and escalating such situations. I may have gone away from your base set up, to a set up that I THINK (no pro driver/engineer here (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) is faster for me, but I would NEVER say that your advice/opinions were not important.....ESPECIALLY to those who compete in autocross events.

I hope that whatever is "transpiring" in your life that is difficult right now goes away as soon as possible.....GOOD LUCK!

Randy

[Cal]

Sam I think you should take heart in the fact that so many have followed your methodolgy and done well with it. I think most fbody performance enthusiasts consider you to the the "Fbody God of Handling." While a few have given you a hard time, this is a very small percentage of the people that know you. Any time some one is as widely known as you are, there will be a few like this. Another point is, familiarity breeds contempt. Many people on this board know you so well that they are quite uninhibited with experessing any slight difference they might have, much like a husband and wife. Then these differences get blown way out of proportion. My wife is more critical of me than anyone else I know!

Keep up the good work! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

This post has been edited by Cal: Nov 14 2005, 05:15 PM

[rmackintosh]

A certain PoliSci professor of mine would have said " we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that." He was SO intense and dynamic! But as passionate as he may have been, and as vehemently as he would debate, he would never digress to undermining his opponent's dignity. No matter how wrong they were.

I think that RIGHT THERE is how we should ALL strive to "disagree" with each other in the future! I never understood why all the disagreements have to get so personal anyway.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

...good post....

[trackbird]

A certain PoliSci professor of mine would have said " we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that."  He was SO intense and dynamic! But as passionate as he may have been, and as vehemently as he would debate, he would never digress to undermining his opponent's dignity.  No matter how wrong they were. 

I think that RIGHT THERE is how we should ALL strive to "disagree" with each other in the future! I never understood why all the disagreements have to get so personal anyway.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

...good post....

Randy beat me to it. If we could learn to take that approach, it would save me hours of time and headaches.

I'll admit that when it all goes to crap around here, as it sometimes does, and my PM box and e-mail box start filling up....I get a bit frustrated. I've spent countless hours sending PM's, e-mails, etc and keeping track of threads that are headed for trouble. These days I can read through a thread and if I get that certain feeling....I know I'll be busy. My wife has suggested that I sell the board on more than on occasion when I was knee deep in some mess or another. And, a few of those times, I've considered it. So far, I can't do it since I bought this place to protect our home. I was afraid that someone would try to make a general F-body site out of it (there's a heck of a lot more money in that than there is in this) and try to turn it into a profit based venture.

Sam has been beyond helpful to me. I order what I can from Sam when I need parts and have received tons of advice that has been worth far more than I've paid for it (usually free at the time...thanks Sam).

I have the itch to try other things and plan to work some of Jason's stuff into my car in the future. The car is not ESP legal, and I'll get killed on a national level in the classes I can run, so I'm pretty free to experiment and not feel bad about it. This is not to take anything away from Sam and the advice I've received (and not always listened to....I'll probably be replacing my shortened rear Koni's soon), but to say that I'm interested in learning what I can and trying new things. Some things work, some things don't. Sam and I don't always agree, but we never argue about it.....

....we just agree to disagree.....and that's the end of it.

And Sam, I hope that you get your current situation sorted out and that all of it will work out for you in the end. If I can help, drop me a line.

[robz71lm7]

Here's an example.... I made drop PHB brackets way back in '99-2000. In an effort to calm the tail of the cars (and folks on this board have seen them, they aren't vaporware).

Then why didn't you say so earlier? I believe you, it's just that it would've helped out tremendously in one thread had you mentioned your personal experience and provided us with a detailed report. Details. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

And I'm sorry about the ESP thread. I wasn't thinking when I posted my comments on ESP cars. I didn't mean for someone to be insulted by it.

[CMC #37]

In my own field I have learned some hard lessons over the years and I think the biggest problem with technical discourse has been addressed here by Tony and others. If basic respect and thoughtful consideration for another's hard work is offered, disagreements tend to be over technical issues and do not dissolve into something personal tangled up with those opinions.

I also have learned that as I got more exposure and notoriety in my business I was exposed to a larger section of consumers and not everyone is going to appreciate your work or be able to be pleased in spite of your efforts. Situation normal! Makes those that do, the majority thank goodness, a joy that makes it all worthwhile. It is easy to get stuck on the negative. I think I spent most of my 30s there! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[OneMeanZ]

Sam, I don't know much. But through the PMs we've sent through LS1tech and the advice you've given me. You have been a tremendous help, I actually had Bilstein HDs on order when I had my DMS springs. Then I saw a thread where you were talking about Koni's, well I bought 2 Koni's for the front and love them. I also sold my DMS springs and this Christmas I'll be doing business with you. Ground Controls (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

I respect and love reading everything you have to say....

[ESPCamaro]

I'll give you a (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

You know the story and don't need much more.

Hope things work out for you. Maybe you could use a day or two off? Not for autoxing but just chilling.

[slowTA]

I think some of the 'heated debates' start because people don't always know what tone the author is trying to use. I know I've tried having some good natured fun with friends through e-mail and it backfired. When some people type they just don't get their point across how they want. I've been guilty of it and now I work to avoid it, that has to be why smilies were invented.

I've met Sam over the summer and he took the time explain the different features of the seats I was looking at. He didn't even know that I post on this board until halfway through our conversation. When I get the extra money I'll buy from him, even if other places have cheaper shipping. When I first got there he was talking about brakes with someone for a while.

Sam is a really helpful guy, (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[Sam Strano]

If you happen to find your way out here again... My car is back and you can try the FX1 for youself.

Chris stopped by when my car was on loan to Mark Andy and couldn't exactly see what my seat was like. Oops.

[Sam Strano]

I'll give you a (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

You know the story and don't need much more.

Hope things work out for you. Maybe you could use a day or two off? Not for autoxing but just chilling.

I think a couple of months off might do. Days off do not help I'm afraid. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Hey that reminds me Lonnie... ever get a chance to send those Koni's I lent you back this way?

[ESPCamaro]

I think some of the 'heated debates' start because people don't always know what tone the author is trying to use. I know I've tried having some good natured fun with friends through e-mail and it backfired. When some people type they just don't get their point across how they want. I've been guilty of it and now I work to avoid it, that has to be why smilies were invented.

I've met Sam over the summer and he took the time explain the different features of the seats I was looking at. He didn't even know that I post on this board until halfway through our conversation. When I get the extra money I'll buy from him, even if other places have cheaper shipping. When I first got there he was talking about brakes with someone for a while.

Sam is a really helpful guy, (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

At the Oscoda Pro, Sam was skipping back and forth between two or three of us working on our cars. I had a bum torque arm mount, Brian (bigenos) had his front end apart, and seems like maybe Phil was working on something.

I've gotten alot of parts, at a great price with great advice. I can make it to at least a couple events with the oppurtunity to put him in the car and possibly to get in his. I've co-driven in the rain because he had rains and I didn't.

The list goes on about character calls. (usually centers around my car broken)


As far as setup, the fastest ESP f-body is still Sam's ESP car. And since the rally cars are gonna be gone, we'll get another go-around next season as well.

We can't automatically assume that theory, or text book based cars are in the real world faster.

My 3 favorite autox cars, a BMW 3 series in DSP, a BMW M3 in BSP, and an ESP F-body. Fastest F-body shop. Sam's. And will admit to a tried and true setup from TONS of testing.
Fastest Bimmers. Tunnels shop. Same thing. TONS of testing. No text book voodoo.

It is what looks like similar customer service although I don't see Bob UNDER someones car helping them work on it. (And I've never dealt with Bob as I don't own a BMW)

[ESPCamaro]

I'll give you a  (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

You know the story and don't need much more.

Hope things work out for you. Maybe you could use a day or two off? Not for autoxing but just chilling.

I think a couple of months off might do. Days off do not help I'm afraid. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Hey that reminds me Lonnie... ever get a chance to send those Koni's I lent you back this way?

I got them off Sunday and was going to send them today, but I forgot your address. I know it's been a few weeks since you reminded me, but I'll get em' out tomorrow.

And I'll send the 'renters fee' with the package. I don't like to borrow things but the car worked so damn well, and I couldn't spring for new ones....I know you don't want anything but that's to bad.


Another example of Sam's helpfullness. He's got an idea what I can/can't afford. I was in a situation of "needing" shocks, so he let me borrow a set that I ended up using till I was done for the year.

Note that he knows my situation and may know yours. I wouldn't solicit the borrowing of shocks just cause your a cheapskate. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[35th_Anniversary...]

Sam's been able to help my car setup - when I actually listen to him. I managed to get a stack of shock curves that helped me make my own conclusion. Hopefully I got the cash next year for some Konis for my car... I really want to try to make my 35mm front bar work (on the Z06) since Pat only had the 32 on. And of course there were still people saying this year "the car doesn't need a bar".

[JonV]

Sam, I am really sorry to hear you feel like that. That is a lousy spot to be.

Let me add my own perspective and see if it helps you understand that thee are many out here that do appreciate you.

Fact is, I pretty much use you as the bible on car handling. I know there are other opinions out there, but you seem to contribute most here. I've followed your recommendations and I've never been disappointed.

Of course, i don't really take the whole autox and solo 1 stuff nearly as seriously as others do. That makes me a bit of a know nothing by comparison to many people here. It also makes it imperative that I find a reliable source of info that has invested heavily in his craft, and a source of info that I can count on being around next week, next year, next decade etc. I don't know of anyone else that I have that much faith in.

Then your staff. Sam Jr. is always helpful. Arlyn is just a doll, as far as I am concerned. BTW how is she? Did she get her knee done? Hope everything is well with her.

As for detractors, and those who malign you. Well, I look at those folks this way. In many instances they just don't know as much as I do. That's fine. It is also fine if they want to argue their point of view. As soon as they step over the line into character assasinations, they have proved to me that their argument has nothing at all to do with finding truth; it is only to prop up a weak ego. For that they wil always have my sympathies, but I will never engage them in a discussion from that point on.

I suggest that you do the same. Don't let people who really need a psychologist beat up on you or try to build a sense of self worth on your back.

Piss on them. They aren't worth your time.

And if you absolutely must talk to them, talk about the weather.

Good luck Sam. I hope you get feeling better about things soon.