Based on the facebook comments, lots of people were mad.

That's ok. It's an interesting piece of history for those who care about such history. If you don't like the cars...that's ok too.

Jack has a good point. If the next gen car had actually been developed and built on the more aerodynamic base of the 4th gen and using the advances in drivetrain technology (hp and such) that we saw in the Corvette, it could have been quite a car.

Indeed. Haters are going to be haters, though. In a similar vein, imagine the third Gen updated to today's tech. We let folks drive our Firebird, or B4C, and almost always, the first word they have is 'I forgot just how well the 3rd Gen turns in'.

I LOVE third gens. Honestly, I was kinda looking for one. Unfortunately my wife seriously dislikes them (I owned the Teal Terror while we were together, she even helped with the cage). And people wanted $10k for a somewhat decent one (with a cracked dash pad....of course). I'd love another '89 Formula like the one I had years ago or maybe a '90 IROC. Take the 350 car and do a 6 speed swap (I've done a few already) and enjoy it. Though I don't know if you can find a manual transmission center console plate these days..... The Teal Terror was a riot on an autocross course. You could drive that car as far sideways as you wanted and still gather it back up instantly. It took Racerdad916 most of 2 seasons of autocrossing it to finally manage to spin it. And all of this was on cheap street tires. Did I mention that I love those cars?

I just returned home from putting roughly 1000 miles on the car over a long weekend. The slightly warped rotor didn't stay slightly warped for long. It was rather unpleasant on the 8% grades in the mountains. Left unchecked, the car would coast up to nearly 100 mph, touching the brakes felt like it was going to shake the wheels off. Decisions, decisions.... It's "floaty" and a bit scary through the twisty mountain passes. It really doesn't inspire confidence. Honestly, it rides more like a 1977 Eldorado than a performance/GT car. The original shocks were crap when they were new, now they are pretty well wasted. The sway bars do what they can, but usually the car hits the bump stops at some angle (due to body roll) and then waffles on the rebound since the shocks are powerless to stop it. It's been a long time since I've driven a stock one, much less a stock one that wasn't brand new.

Today I added an iPod adapter and disconnected the CD changer. That really helped things seem "normal" again. lol. Now I can just listen to music and not have to pick 12 cds that I'm going to get sick of entirely too soon.

And I installed front rotors by Centric and Stoptech street pads on all 4 corners. I didn't know that Stoptech made/sold replacement street pads (maybe they don't make them?) and I've never tried them. But I figured it was a good time to try something new. I'll report back once I get them bedded and working. Also, I think I actually removed the original factory pads and rotors today. The rotors had GM part numbers in them, but they also had the retaining clips on the studs....and NOBODY puts those back on (do they?). Inside the Stoptech pads box there was an interesting note that said "Stoptech is the performance division of Centric parts". I had no clue.

UMI swaybars are on the way and I think I'm going to pick up a TA Performance rear end cover (I'm changing the fluid anyway, and they are far easier to fill and drain the next time). I'm not completely sure they really help much beyond that, but I think I'll try another one. I was running behind today and didn't get to the PHB or SFCs. I think I'm going to wait for the swaybars and do it all when it's up in the air and level. And I still need to run by the Interstate battery dealer and pick up a battery. This one indicates that it was purchased in 2009. At 7 years old, I think I'll grab a fresh one. Seems like it's only a matter of time.

And I finally drove it with the top up. With the top up I can hear the tires roaring (or the bearings). I was trying to decide if the noise was bearings or tires all through my trip this weekend. After removing the wheels today I'm quite sure it's tires. The outer tread blocks are all feathered and uneven and all the tires have more rubber on the inside than the outside. It's been burning the outside edges off the fronts (it tracks straight, but the alignment seems a bit questionable). So, 17" tires and wheels are moving up the list of important things. But I don't want to put tires on it without shocks or align it until the shocks are done. I'll nurse it along while wasting the last of these tires, but I'm likely moving up my schedule to order the UMI coilover kit and some wheels a bit.

Those retainers are such a PITA!! But once they finally come off, they go on, and come off again fairly-easily. No reason to worry about the retainers again, though, once you are downstream the assembly line.

Actually had the car owner buy them from GM for his corvette. I asked him why he uses them? to hold the rotor from falling off!!!!! I used a lug nut turned around, he was thoroughly impressed with that!!!!!

While I've never gone out to buy any from GM, if I can get them off without peeling them off with a pair of Vise Grips, I will usually reinstall them after doing any brake/rotor work.

I took needle nose pliers and straightened all the little blades. Then they pull right off. They are useless after that, but I find them to be mostly useless anyway. They landed in the trash can with the old pads and old brake hardware. All the pads were down to about 1/4 of the material, so I don't feel too bad replacing them all.

Some people over on bobistheoilguy.com SWEAR BY those Stop Tech street pads, and rate them FAR ABOVE the Hawk HPS/HP+/5.0s.

Most of them do not know from Carbotech/G-Loc, so no comparisons to their streetable pads.

So far I like the feel of the Stoptech pads. I'm still wearing in the rotors (I'm almost done seeing the cross hatch pattern from machining, but it's not completely gone yet). Even while wearing in the rotors they don't seem to be making any significant amount of dust...so far. As a street pad, I think I like them. I wonder how they will do at an autocross. I suspect we'll take this car out for a few events once I get it done.

Today I picked up the TA performance rear end girdle and swung by the interstate battery dealer. That takes care of a few more things.

You better,you better,you bet!

The UMI swaybars showed up today. They look very nice. I'll get some pics when I get time to get them on the car. They came with bushings and hardware and I'm looking forward to trying them out. I also received a set of the UMI CNC machined aluminum swaybar brackets and bushings. They are likely the prettiest swaybar bushings I've ever had my hands on....really nice stuff. I also received a box full of factory service manuals. The last set I had were green and came in 3 volumes. Now they are purple and it's a 5 book set. They also cost a lot more than they used to....but at least I have another set of them.

Mmm, machined sway bar brackets!!

Yeah, it's amazing how the size and number of volumes the FSMs have grown to these days. The FSM for our '02 GMC and '10 Tahoe are 600+-page 5-volume sets. The set for the '12 Caprice is only 3 volumes, though. Not sure what's up with that, it's not like the vehicle is any simpler than the others. Perhaps it's the number of models supported by the manuals that adds to the volumes. The Caprice FSM is just for the left-hand-drive M Body.

Funny how they've grown from a single ~400-page volume like what we have for our 68 Cadillac (which includes directions to _rebuild_ the carburetor, distributor, alternator, A/C compressor, etc.) to what we have now (where everything is _replaced_ if it's failed).

If you need any GM Info let me know!!!! Those brackets are kinda Purdy!!!!!

Thanks! Yea, they are really nice looking brackets. Likely the prettiest ones I've ever laid my hand on. I"m anxious to get under the car and get moving. I have wheels on the way (SS 10 spokes, it lets me get rid of the cupped 16's without buying tires I won't use) and I'm looking at pushing up the time frame for ordering the coil over kit. If I can work that out, I'll just do all the work at once. "Poof", new car in a weekend.

I had factory service manuals for a 2001 that I bought from Helm. They were three green books (which is what I got for my 1991 Corvette). I don't know why they broke these up into smaller portions. All the info appears to be there, but I didn't expect different books. I really wanted the factory manual in case I have issues with the convertible top. I can fix about anything else, but I've never looked at the actuators for the top. I know there's a hydraulic pump in the back and it has a valve on it (I'm guessing that's for manual operation, but I need to do some reading).

I'm really excited about the parts from UMI. I've been away from the Fbody platform for a while and I hadn't been paying much attention. While I was away, UMI got super serious about building quality parts. They had good stuff when I was last playing with these cars, but they've added lots of parts and everything I've seen is really high quality, well built stuff. I'm anxious to get my hands on the coil overs. They look niiiiiice. I'll post a bunch of pics soon, I just have to get time to get out to the garage and fire up the air compressor.

Kevin

If you need anything not in the book let me know.

I'm really tempted to get back into something. I'm just coming off a 50 day strike and the funds are limited. Why cant I ever find something the correct color. It such a easier sale if the wife likes the color!!!!! or I trained her enough that only a hardtop will do!! She will call me out on it!!! AHAHAHAHAHAH

John

Thanks John!

I forgot about you being wrapped up in that strike. Hope you can get caught back up relatively quickly.

My wife learned how cool t top and targa cars are and agreed with me that I missed having a summer car. I still didn't mean to buy a convertible. It wasn't my plan. But this car was sooooo clean, I had to bring it home. And secretly, I want to be EugenioSS.... (I told Eugenio I was going to be his poor American cousin when I bought the car....his is an SS and I only got a Z28).

I finally got out to the garage to get a little work done. I actually spent way more time on this today than I meant to, but it was a beautiful day to be outside, so I'm not complaining. I got the SFCs on the car first. I just bolted them on for now, I'll deal with welding them in later. It's pretty simple, just hang the rear mount on the LCA bolt, swing into place and bolt to the metal bar with the two threaded holes in it. Unfortunately, my car didn't want to cooperate and I wound up grinding the hole just a touch to get the bolts in. There was a layer of sheet metal that was covering the edge of the bolt hole. Once I opened that up, I decided that the job would be easier with guide bolts. My wife collected a couple bolts at tractor supply and I cut the heads off and threaded them into the "bar". Once I had them in place, I removed one and inserted the bolt, after it was slightly snug, I swapped the other one for the remaining bolt. This turned a half hour of cussing into about 5 minutes of work. Reinstall the center support and torque the rear LCA's once the suspension is loaded. These are the UMI SFCs for convertibles. There's a lot more bracing under these cars than I'm used to seeing and the SFCs have to work around that.

The swaybars and the beautiful machined aluminum brackets went on. The UMI bars are very well made, they fit nice and the powdercoating job is as good or better than any swaybars I've ever used. They really did a nice job on them. The bars are 35/22 hollow bars. I usually run a solid front, but I keep reminding myself "it's a convertible". We'll see how I like it when it's all done. A quick test drive confirmed that it no longer drags the door handles around a corner. Ahh....much better (the front bar and brackets were installed too, by then I was getting tired and it was late, so I didn't get any pics, I did have to modify the metal "bracket" that protects a hose on the drivers side frame mount because it wasn't going to work with the new aluminum mounts, I just trimmed the ear off of the bracket, touched it up with paint and reinstalled it).

The TA performance (Jeg's) 10 bolt girdle went on and a fresh load of Mobile 1 went in the diff. I figure it can't hurt and it's certainly easier to fill (and drain).

The rotojoint PHB dropped right in. I've always run rod ends (heim joints), but in an effort to avoid noise, vibration and general "clunkiness" (remember, I have to keep this project "wife friendly", she's been worried that I'm going to "ruin" the car....I'm trying hard not to...and everything I've done can be put back stock at this point....except trimming the one sheild in the front for the swaybar) I'm trying something new. The roto joints are pretty interesting looking and the tig welding on them is nicely done. I didn't hear any new noises on my quick test drive, so far so good.

The two bolts are what I used to line up the internal bracket on the SFCs. Once I tried these, the job went very quickly. No more poking and prodding with a screwdriver and a dental pick. Just line them up and swap on the bolts. If I ever install another set of bolt on connectors, I'll do the same trick. It made the job simple.

I'm getting old and slow, it took me far longer to get this done today than I expected. However, it is done and the car feels much better. There is a note in the UMI SFC paperwork saying "if you hear a clunk in the rear, tighten the LCA mount to 90-100 ft lbs instead of 72". I did hear a bit of a clunk and I'll run the bolts down a bit more tomorrow. I'm guessing there's still a slight gap between the SFC mount that goes over the LCA mount and the factory sheet metal of the LCA mount. These cars have some pretty large variances in the chassis and the sizes of parts, so my car may be a little on the "small" side. I tightened it with two 3/4" box end wrenches and I may not have it tight enough. It's tight, but it may not be at the 72 ft lbs. I'll take the blame for that one since I was lazy and assumed I had it tight enough.

I received the new to me SS wheels (10 spokes) from Tony on Friday. I cleaned them up today and decided to just take them to the wheel refinishing place instead of running them a while. The wheels are in pretty good shape for "track wheels" and I bought them knowing I was going to have them refinished and painted charcoal, so I'm going to drop them off sometime next week and have them fixed up. I need to order a set of 275/40-17's to go on them and I guess I now have some 255/40-17 Rival tires for sale (local pickup in Columbus only). The SS wheels are going to delay the Forgestars, but they saved me some cash and I don't feel bad ordering the coil over kit now. The 16" tires are cupped and really noisy with the top up. I'm not buying new 16" tires and I need shocks before buying new 17's (and wheels...which I now have). So this seemed like a good plan to keep things moving along.

I'm going to order the UMI coilover kit Monday. I'm looking forward to trying them out and I know a few people here were curious about them. I'll try to take lots of pics and post the install information and driving impressions. Then I'm going to have to get a fresh helmet and hit at least one local autocross event.

And a huge thank you to "Bubba353z" who came over today and was a HUGE help with all of this work. We also bled the brakes and installed fresh ATE Superblue fluid (nobody tell the DOT!!!!).

So how's that 'instant new car' now? I'm planning that for our Caprice. There's a huge pile of parts in the corner of the shop, just waiting for a long weekend to get to it.

The 4th Gen convertible mechanisms are pretty reliable. The only issues we've had with ours are with the 'bow links'. Those thin metal rods on the sides up front. The plastic 'rod ends' tend to break, and we've actually bent one of ours, somehow. They seem to be almost year-specific, or at least there are a couple of iterations of them, maybe LT-car andLS-car specific?

Hawks Third Gen does list them, I'm not certain what years they say theirs fit, but they do have them. Suffice to say, if you run across your year vert in a JY, and they're there, grab them!

The windshield latches can be an issue if you are not parked level, it's amazing how much these cars twist, even with SFCs. Just something to remember when parking with the top down.

It's much better, much much better. And I got down beside it with an impact gun (socket and impact swivel) and a box end wrench and "leaned" on the front LCA bolts a little bit. No more clunk. So that seems to be fixed.

That's good news on the top mechanism. I had no idea what to expect. There really aren't too many of the convertibles around (from what I've seen). I bought a pair of spare ebony seat belt guides for the front seat. When one broke (it had been glued) I ordered two, then I bought a spare for that one. That should hold me for a while. Parts seem to be drying up for these cars. It's really strange to me since I bought one new when the aftermarket was in full swing. I guess I'm getting old faster than I think.

Well, these things are starting to be eligible for antique status in some states. I was surprised at the odd stuff that IS still available. I had to replace a battery in our Z recently (10-year old, it's our third battery we've lost while using Battery Tenders in the shop. That's third in about 25 years across no less than 10 vehicles!!). Anyway, I discovered that the front hold down for the battery was broken. It's part of the coolant reservoir, by the way. I started looking around, and discovered I could get one from Hawks. They also had that terminal housing (you know, that red oval thingy on the fender by the battery that always has it's top missing?). So I updated those parts and have a battery that stays in place now (not that it was going anywhere in there), and a new terminal cover.

I got to chat with Jack at an event a couple days after he wrote that. It basically reinforced the fact I don't have much interest in 4th gens as street cars any more.

It's all in what you like. they have some weaknesses (actually, they are terrible in stock form), but we already know what they are (with me it's "the devil you know"). This one is well on the way to being "fixed". It's a reasonably quick "driver" that is in desperate need of some shocks. Once I get the shocks and springs on it and a fresh alignment, it will be as happy going to the drive in as it is at an autocross. It's a little heavier and more flexible than the coupes, but it will go where I point it. And no clunks or rattles. Honestly, it should have come from the factory this way. Installing all of the parts is a lot more work than I remember (I was much younger the last time), but it's not bad, it's a weekend of work and a small pile of parts from being a pretty decent way to enjoy nice weather.

On the other hand, I'm not going to try to talk you into buying one to drive on the street (and there are a lot of overpriced cars out there that are BEAT, so you may not find you would actually want to drive anyway). When I'm done with this car, I'll have similar money in it to the average going rate of a 125,000-150,000 mile mostly stock C5 (Non Z06)...which will also need fresh shocks, tires and some bushings and such (I was seeing "junk" C5's for $11k, "decent" cars seemed to start about $15k and a "better than just decent" car seemed to run $17k+). In that context it seems like an OK deal for my uses. My wife recently said "I'm glad we bought this and not a Miata, this has a lot more room and is much more comfortable...and our cooler fits in the trunk". If the wife is happy and it's reasonably fun to drive, it will do nicely for my uses.

So far, the breakdown is:

$11,500 - Car
$199 - UMI PHB
$499 - UMI SFC
$389 - UMI Swaybars
$249 - UMI Aluminum sway bar mounts (optional, you can use the standard mounts and save $250 if you would like)
$1849 - UMI Shocks/springs (coil overs) (you could do Bilstiens and springs if that setup makes you happy....and save some cash)
$200 - B&M Ripper shifter
$150 - 10 bolt girdle (optional, you can save money here too)
$550 - 10 spoke wheels (or just run what comes on it)
$450 - new tires
$99 - iPod adapter
$99 - SLP "lid"
$79 - STB
$200 - Stoptech pads and new front rotors (again, anything you buy will likely need this done)

$16,512

I'm going to take the 10 spoke wheels to "wheel doctor" and have them fixed up and painted charcoal grey ($480 additional, but you don't have to do this either).

That puts me right about $17k. I could barely find a Corvette to buy for that price (that I actually wanted to buy), and then I'd have started on brakes, shocks, and other maintenance. Granted, this isn't a C5, but a C5 was the only other choice (or a C6) for me. Though I did miss a decent Z51 C5 in Michigan for $15,500 with under 100k miles on it. Those cars are out there, but they go fast and there aren't many.


I looked at buying a 2016 Camaro SS, but I really don't fit in it and I had serious issues with the rear visibility (3rd and 4th gen cars were bad, the new ones may as well be panel vans). I considered a new Mustang, and then the $39,999 670 hp Roush supercharged cars appeared. My wife told me to go buy one instead of a car like this. I was tempted. In the end, this one should be pretty cheap fun, but I actually like these cars....even with all of their flaws.

I'll take it back to Jack when it's done.

As always, your results may vary.

Agreed, what I meant was more along the lines of it doesn't fit what I would want out of a street car any more. My E46 M3 does all of the things that you described much better (IMO) at a price point that (again IMO) is more than fair for all the improvements it offers. DIY maintenance is just as easy, there is just more of it and parts cost more. Now that isn't to say that everyone should do what I did, just that I really couldn't see myself street driving a 4th gen when I could be street driving the M3.

But maybe I'm a bit different. After all, I'm perfectly happy beating the snot out of my 1.0T Fiesta on a daily basis. That and I am enjoying the opportunity to go full retard on the ESP car with no regards for comfort.

I've got an E36 M3 for my daily. It's a 98 with the 4 doors. The car seat fits back there and it's an absolute blast to drive. My 2 yr old already says "daddy, go fast!" I love it.

But. I really like my 4th gen as a weekend car/track car. A 4th gen that can corner really gets some attention.

The BMW stuff is a good choice. And I hear they are easy to work on. I'm just too lazy to learn the nuances of another platform. lol

And you can't get a T top BMW (though they do convertibles....and when my friends top quit going up I think the dealer only charged him $3,500 to fix it and the factory service manuals omitted the stuff about the top actuators as part of the "you're too dumb to work on this part" adjustments they made to the retail version of the FSM).

We took it to a drive in movie the other night and took the long way home. It was a nice night and we put a bit over 100 miles on it. When the weather is decent, we seem to put about 100 miles a night on it (on nights where we take it out). That's what I wanted it for, enjoying the nice weather. I have a pretty nice truck as a daily driver and this is just a "multipurpose" toy (nice evenings, and maybe an autocross or so at some point just because I can). And, if prices continue to be "stupid", I may not manage to lose much money on it if I were to sell it at some point....but I never buy cars as investments so I don't care that much.

Another car that gets some attention!
Too bad it needs 5 pt harnesses, seats, better than tool box liner over the leather, and a set of R7's, and a trailer.
This is my alternate car, when the 4th gen t/a has issues.
http://www.ponycars.net/images/tempimages/...JM_DE2_5272.jpg

Thinking more about it. If you wanted to do one of these cars for "cheap" and improve the pretty terrible factory suspension, you could likely do the following:

Bilstien HD shocks
Strano springs
35mm front sway bar
PHB upgrade

Align it and enjoy it. As time goes on, an STB and SFC's are always a good call (at least in my mind), but you could build a reasonably fun car with the list above.

So far I've been really impressed with the UMI rotojoint PHB. I've always run rod ends and good rod ends add very little noise and vibration to the car, but they can add a slight amount of what I consider to be a very subtle "buzz" from road noise. These have been completely silent. I may change my mind and decide to give the matching lower control arms a try. Also, the car was "hopping" to the side a bit over big bumps at freeway speeds. I think that was due to the natural arc that the PHB takes during suspension travel and compression of the rubber bushings that would then "spring back" and push the tail slightly sideways. I no longer feel that with the new PHB. I really expected that I'd need to lower the car (changing the arc of the PHB) to and get shocks on it to cure the hop, but the PHB has cured almost all of it.

New tires and UMI coilovers and a UMI trans tunnel brace are ordered and should be rolling in here soon. After that, I'm down to getting the wheels refinished/straightened (there's a bent lip on one wheel) and an alignment and I think I'm "done" with this car (I still have to change trans, PS fluids and anti freeze and dyno it).

I'm still trying to convince my wife that it needs an exhaust. Otherwise, this might be my shortest duration project ever. I'm going to have to learn to just drive it and enjoy it.

Dibs on the T56 when you part it out.

Bwhahahaha.....Thanks TJ.

I already called dibs on 'all the good stuff' up in post #13!

If you lived near me, I'd let you make a lap in the Z. It has a Flowmax single out the back, and gutted cat. Driving under an overpass with the top down just begs for moar throttle!!

Coilovers shipped today Kevin

Excellent! I'm anxious to get them installed. I'll have to post up lots of pics when I open them up. From what I've seen, they are almost too pretty to put under the car.

oh man I'm jealous !

I finally got my Strano's / KONI's this year (been "needing" since 08/2011 !) ... Let me know what alignment specs you decide to go with, I'm trying to decide a "street/race" compromise

~DaVe

That's easy. Knowing that this is more street car than "track" car, I'll stay with my typical street alignment.

-1 Camber (if it will get there, and it should)
5.2 Castor (5.2-5.5, depending what range is available)
0 toe

That is responsive enough to enjoy driving it on backroads and exit ramps and can still do the occasional autocross while not being so darty and nervous that my wife will hate driving it. For a dedicated autocross build (or more aggressive build), I use 1/32" of toe OUT (not in). It makes the car want to turn (you trade stability for response) but it's more nervous/less stable in normal street driving. I also run more negative camber (-1.5 to -1.8 for most tires) for a more focused application, but that gets you running on the inside edges of the tires in a straight line and it can lead to some instability (darting) under braking when combined with the toe out. So, I'm not doing those things on this car and we will see how it goes.

The Strano/Koni package works well on these cars. I was all set to go that way again when the new UMI package appeared and Sam tuned it (you can also order them from Sam if you decide you want a set). If it wasn't for Sam tuning them, I'd have stayed with Koni shocks. However, I know how Sam tends to set up a car and I like his approach. There were a few guys here who wanted to know more about the UMI package so I figured I'd give it a shot...in the name of science and all that. I'm really looking forward to it and I've been very pleased with all of the UMI parts for this project. Ryan and the UMI crew are building great stuff and you won't find a nicer group to work with.

UMI deserves praise for continuing development on these cars. More importantly they deserve praise for how they treat their customers. Without a doubt, they have the best customer service in the industry. They always pick up the phones to answer your questions, and they go out of their way to make sure that the customer gets the parts they need, and they listen to customers on what products they should design next. It's an example of how a business should be run. Ryan, Ramey - and the rest of the guys and girls at UMI - you guys rock. Don't change a thing.

I just dropped the 10 spokes off at the wheel refinishing shop. They had a nice Maserati on one of the lifts getting a wheel fixed as well as other fun cars. We picked out a pretty cool color of charcoal with a silver accent (like a dusting so that it looks like metal flake, I really can't explain it) and left the tires to be mounted when they are done. They are going to straighten the bent wheel and refinsh them all. I should have them sometime next week. The guy who helped me was one of the guys from out in the shop and quite a car enthusiast. I made him a good deal on the old tires since he said he loved them and could use them. I think he'll take good care of the wheels. I'm anxious to get them back and see how they look.

Progress.....

Which tires were you putting on these wheels?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...tireModel=HTR+Z

275/40-17

I ran these on the teal terror and we did extremely well autocrossing on them. They are actually fairly sticky and they respond well. They are also quite affordable, but overall I liked them well enough to buy more of them.

The HTRZ II is my favorite. They are dirt cheap and actually has a decent amount of grip. The best part is when I have some fun on the street, I don't feel like I'm leaving $20 bills on the road. I used to put the baddest street tire I could afford, like the NT05's that I had on my M3. They were incredible. So much grip. So much so, that I couldn't have any fun.

I'm sure the regular HTRZ is similar.

I like the HTRZ II, that's what I had on the Corvette. The II is a 360 treadwear tire, the HTRZ is a 160 treadwear. They are pretty sticky, but you can overheat them with two drivers at an autocross. We found that they'd get greasy for the last few runs if we didn't wet them down to cool them. I think they'll be great budget street tires for my uses.

Wow no kidding. So they would be terrible on a road course, huh?

Will the local autocrosses allow you to run those at that tread wear rating in the street classes, or ONLY in E/SP or above??

I ran them at Nashville superspeedway and I didn't have any trouble at all. It seems to be all the sliding around and driving it with the throttle that really heats them up. I did three 20 minute sessions on them, then we autocrossed the crap out of them on my teal car with two drivers and they still had good tread on them when I sold the wheels and tires.




I'm not sure. I ran CP with them in the Teal Terror. I haven't run an event in about 5 years. The rules have changed since then. Worse case they can put me in SM/SM2 or CAM (if legal) or "wherever". I'm sure I'm pretty rusty and I'll just need a few events to get my reflexes back and get my wife comfortable running. If I can remember how to drive, then I might worry about what class I actually belong in.

My theory was something like this...if I buy something 200 treadwear or higher, I'd never make it to an event. If I buy these (160 tread wear) then I'm likely to wind up an event next week. That's just how things go. We'll see if I can actually get out to an event this summer.

It would be a shame to take that car to an OVR event. They are using National Trails for every one now and the last time the car came back into grid with a full layer of dirt on all four Hoosiers. Better off waiting for a Toledo local

Everything is being run at Trails? Wow...that's awful. I didn't know that, though I knew they built a medical building in part of the Ackerman lot and I wasn't sure where else they might be able to run. The old airport site was probably the worst one, so I was hoping they weren't running there.

For now yes. I know there is some hope of getting back in at Ackerman or maybe Rickenbacker, but right now it's just talk.

Are you near Columbus? I didn't realize we had too many OVR guys on here these days.