I know its probably not a good idea if you can't weld and do some fab, but what about F600? On the outside looking in, F600 looks to be a ton of fun and seems like it should be dirt cheap to race. Of course I've heard about it for the last few years and so far only a handful of cars have been converted.

I'm having a hard time finding out much info on these cars. I'm not even finding much on the F500's, which I know the F600 will be replacing.

Steve

Stay away from AI, way too much $$$$ and the rules are set up for the new Ford Factory Race Cars to winn all the time, CMC is where its at unless there is no CMC in your area then spec E30 might be fun, but try CMC its cheap and you'll have a blast...
my .02 cents

I've been poking around on the spec E30 forums a little, and it's definitely a possibility. One thing I will say is that I have NEVER heard anything bad about spec E30. Never. And it is huge around here. I'm going to see if I can figure out how strong the field is out here.

Why is it the CMC forums are dead? Is this where everyone is?

I'm also trying to figure out what to do with my current Camaro. It's a 97SS. The body has about 97,000 miles, and the engine is a stroked 396. About 380 rwhp.
It's got a bolt in roll bar, no factory seats, just two racing seats with full interior, no radio or speakers. Corvette front brakes, stock rear.

The thing is, it's still not worth anything. I'm just kind of tossing around the idea of selling off the parts I can't use in CMC, like the engine, brakes,
roll bar, and probably some brakes. Do some safety work and go racing. It seems like a CMC car is going for $10-12K. I don't think I'd be able to sell my car for that much. The engine has less than 50K miles.

If I go this route, what's the most expensive part? The cage, right? What does something like that cost?

Doing this would probably allow me to go racing for a lot less. And as much as I love my Camaro, it is just a Camaro. They really are a dime a dozen.

Is this a bad idea?


Edit: I take it back, I found a CMC forum that seems to be pretty active.

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Sep 20 2011, 01:52 PM

I'd sell you a virtual AI car for $12k (it needs a windsheild and a dash of some kind to meet the rules...and a fire system). I can't believe that they are actually changing hands for that much. Race car values seem to be in the toilet right now. At 12k I haven't had so much as an email on mine and there's 3 times that much invested in it and others seem to be practically giving cars away as well...keep looking.

Well, I'm not going to be doing anything for roughly 2 years. I'm about to go through pilot training for the military, which means I'm going to have no time. But, my plan is to be racing something as soon as I get out. I've been reading a little on the CMC forums, and watching some videos, I think you guys are right, I'd have a blast in CMC.

I think it just comes down to what I want to do. Turn my car into a dedicated race car, or sell it, and get something else. I also just read that C5 brakes are allowed, which is nice because I already have them. As much as I don't want to tear up my car, I'm thinking that it's going to make a perfect race car. Just needs the safety equipment and a stock LT1.

If I go this route, I'll just enjoy it for another 2 years, then turn in the plates and start selling off the stuff I don't need.

I have a question (big surprise), because of the schedule I'm going to have, I will not be able to make every race. Probably won't be able to afford it, even if I did have the time. How does this work as far as the points system goes? Also, is there a purse at each race? How does that work, and how much does that end up being?

6k for this car is a steal
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=15273

Yeah it is. I guess I was a little high on my estimate. I guess it's going to be down to how much I could realistically sell my car for, but I don't think it's going to be very much. Built LT1 or not.

If someone would buy mine, I'd be on the phone right now making arrangements to go buy that one...(then I'd find an interior and make it back into something I could drive on occasion). I've been looking at that ad and wishing my garage wasn't already full. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I know the feeling. I'm in the process of posting my dirt bike for sale. I never thought I'd sell that thing. But I really need to downsize some of my hobbies.

It's a little late to get into this discussion, but for competitive seat time, nothing will beat 24 hours of lemons or chumpcar, dollar for dollar.

4 drivers on a team, 14 hour race. Minimum. one goes out to 25:25:25. Average price for an arrive and drive is 500-600 for the shorter races and up to 1000.00 for a 24.

I'd like to get into CMC or AI, but I spend less in a lemons race than I do on a 2 day HPDE.

plus, it's great training for any wheel to wheel wannabe. The guy who builds the Riley daytona prototypes runs the Boom Pow Surprise team (probe), there are a ton of roadracers, Indy car, indy light, ASA, Tony Stewart was at the VIR 24 last year, came in around 20th. There's at least 80 Chumps who can say they beat Tony Stewart that day.

i had around 4-5000 into my car, close to half was wheels, tires, brakes.

i just bought (today) a 93 T/A for 726.00. I've got a garage full of F body upgrades (packrat) and an autopower cage I got for free.

Even if you're not into building yourself a crapcan, do an arrive and drive.

Hey guys. So it looks like I'm not going to be able to fly for the military, at least not for the next couple of years. I don't have the funds right now to convert my Camaro to CMC2, but I want to start planning.

I need to look closer at the rules, but I believe I have all of the suspension and brakes that I need. More or less.
I need to sell my 430 hp stroked LT1 (396) and get a stock LT1. Hopefully I can actually make a little money there.
I need to strip the rest of the interior and sell off my racing seats for something safer and approved. (maybe the money I make on the engine will pay for the seat?)
I also need a fire system

Now, for the expensive part. The roll cage. Who would be on the east cost that is reputable? And how much is this going to cost?


I'm kind of torn on which direction to go. If I were to sell my car, it probably wouldn't sell for very much. $8000 maybe? It's got nearly 100,000 miles on the chassis, and about 50,000 easy miles on the engine. But I know just about every nut and bolt in the car. And at the end of the day, it's still "just" a Camaro. They really are a dime a dozen.

What do you guys think? Think it would be more cost effective to put a cage in mine and go racing? Or to look for another cheap Camaro to race with? The only thing I'd like would be an LS1. I really don't like optisparks.

Anyway, I know I'm still a little ways away from doing this, but I'd like to start planning my move. Also, if I'm going to CMC my Camaro, I may start doing things in stages, like swap out my engine for a stock LT1, to get used to the power. But I'll keep it street legal for as long as I can.

Thanks,
Steve

I've been reading through the CMC2 rules. I think what I'm going to do is slowly, over time, build my car into a CMC2 car (I know it's changing for 2012). This way I'm not plunking down a large amount of cash for a car that I can't race yet. I can do HPDE's with my car for now, eventually race school, and still keep it street legal for a little while longer. I'm still trying to figure out how much it's going to cost me though.

From reading through the rules a couple of times, here's what I figure I'll need to do.

Sell my stroked LT1 for a stock LT1. Stock LT1=500. Any idea how much my 396 will go for?
Sell long tube headers, al. flywheel.
Sell my non approved racing seats and belts.

Replace my T-tops with metal panels.
Gut the interior (no cost, just time)
Get an approved racing seat.
Have a cage welded up.
Add safety equipment

So.....$4000 to $5000 not including anything that I could sell?

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Nov 14 2011, 08:44 AM

harnesses
cutoff switch, battery box and wiring
fire system and fire extinguisher
window net
right side net
wheels and tires and spacers
shocks, springs, front coilovers
swaybars
spherical bearings for front LCA
UCA bushings
rodend rear LCA, PH
tow hooks
rollcage padding
firewall blockoff
headlight, turn signal, foglight blockoffs
oil cooler
power steering cooler
radiator closeouts
AC elim pulley
exhaust
PS reservoir
breather plumbing and catch tank
EGR, AIR blockoffs
front brakes
front brake duct plenums, ducts
brake pads
brake lines
bias valve
diff, gears and bearings
ARP wheel studs
steering wheel, QD
hood and hatch pins
windshield clips
cage, interior paint
numbers, stickers
fluids
transponder
HANS, helmet, driving suit, undies, shoes
replace worn out stuff - chin deflector, tire rod ends, ball joints, clutch, T56 synchros

Put a 1 in front of your estimate.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Nov 14 2011, 12:23 PM

^^ What he said! It's not the big things that kill you. You can budget for a crate motor and cage. It's the wire you have to get to run this circuit, the $3 a piece window clips that you have to get 10 of, and the $20 hold down you have to get to relocate the battery, and the $2 each for the terminal lugs you have to get to run battery cable to that relocated battery that will nickle-and-dime you to death. That's why finding someone's already-built fire sale is such a deal. Get a car that's built and make it your own. You'll be a ton of money ahead.

Heck, the personal safety gear alone will probably knock on $2K, and that's if you're looking at the low-end gear.

This post has been edited by CrashTestDummy: Nov 14 2011, 02:32 PM

As Alan pointed out there are a lot of little things that add up but you can slowly put everything together and that's what I'm doing. I just did the battery relocation with box, master kill switch and did the oil catch can with all of the plumbing and fittings. All of the parts alone were over $400 with me doing the labor. Just take it slow and you'll get there.

I'll probably bite the bullet and get a cage installed within the next year. I know it's a haul for you but I'm probably going to have Race Car Builders of South Florida do my cage. They've done quite a few NASA cages and you can see some of their work in this 18 page epic on the NASA Florida forum. Cage Builders Thread I haven't had them quote the cage yet but I know their prices are fair.

harnesses
cutoff switch, battery box and wiring
fire system and fire extinguisher
window net
right side net
spherical bearings for front LCA
tow hooks
firewall blockoff
headlight, turn signal, foglight blockoffs
oil cooler
radiator closeouts
AC elim pulley
PS reservoir
breather plumbing and catch tank
bias valve
diff, gears and bearings
steering wheel, QD
hood and hatch pins
windshield clips
cage, interior paint
numbers, stickers
transponder





I removed from the list what I already have. I was expecting the list to be much shorter. I know you guys are correct in saying that I will spend more money building my car compared to selling mine, then buying a ready to race CMC car. But the problem is that if I sell my car, I'm basically giving away all of the nickel and dime stuff, and all the hours I've put into my own car. The brakes, the cooling ducts, the suspension, the PS cooler.....the list goes on. If my car was stock, or close to it, I would sell it in a heart beat, because it makes the most sense. But being that I've got so much invested in my car already, it's hard to figure out which is really the better deal.

I just need to make more money.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You bring up a good point also. I enjoy working on my car, especially when I have a goal in mind. If I do decide to keep the car, doing all of these things over time, while I'm still doing HPDE's and driving on the street seems like the way to go.

heh.. there's more - I just listed the basics to put together a car that could be competitive. I wanted you to know how deep the pool is you are jumping into.




I didn't say that. If you can afford to build your own car, and have the ability and tools, then go for it. Race cars tend to become quite personalized - buying someone elses will always require some adjustment to get it to fit. Also, some wear items will tend to be near their end of life, whereas building your own with good/new parts leaves you with a new race car.



I don't see resale on a LT1 4th gen being over $4k, no matter what the condition. None of the non stock parts will net you more than 20% of what you paid for them. IMO you've got 2 clear choices:

1) buy a bone stock LS1 4th gen for $3 or 4K, swap the suspension and brakes between the cars, sell the SS. If it is really nice condition and you find a buyer willing to pay the 'SS' tax you might get $6K for it, but it could take a year and some advertising dollars.

2) Sell your SS hood and rear spoiler and badges, pick up a Z28 hood, and tear into the car you have. Sell the built motor, buy a stocker. Better yet, sell the complete built LT1/T56/wiring as a package, buy a stock LS1/T56/wiring to swap in.

Anthony does a lot of street car cages, and there is stuff in that thread that is clearly illegal for a NASA race car build, and other stuff that is not best practice. If you have him build the cage make sure he understands that he needs to follow NASA CCR cage rules, and give him written details on how you want your cage built.