I have a friend who autocrosses a C4, and has been a couple of rounds with lightweight clutch issues. He has a friend who has a shop and many of the right tools to do that work, so when he has issues with his clutch, he says it goes on the trailer to the shop, and a new clutch magically appears. He won't mess with it at all.

It was tough getting the bellhousing off of the old clutch. If it's worn too thin you can't remove the bellhousing without taking out the pivot ball (they hadn't figured out the removable slave cylinder spacer like the LT1 cars have). The pivot balls always crack at the corners of the allen head socket inside and that makes the pivot stud "lock" into the bellhousing. That job kinda sucked. We found a way around it, but I'm not going to be upset if I never do another one. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well....we went out to enjoy one of the last few convertible friendly nights in Ohio tonight. Unfortunately the car had other ideas. It started with the clutch pedal engaging in various places. And at first I decided it was just in my head. The more we drove, the more I noticed that it felt different and it was engaging closer to the floor (at times). I finally told my wife that we better head back towards the house and try to get home before it acts up for good. A few minutes later I made a shift and felt the clutch pedal stick and then hit my foot. That was a sign that I was smart to head home. I just started to explain to my wife that you can drive these cars without the clutch if needed and I made a 1-2 shift without the clutch so she could see. The next shift the clutch pedal stuck to the floor. I managed to pull it up with my toe and baby it around the corner and down the street. I got it in 4th gear and left it there (all backroads) and managed to time most of the lights so I didn't have to stop. Two lights from home I had to stop. I wasn't sure it was going to let me put it in first, but the clutch was there and engaged right off the floor. I timed the last light to the house and made it into the neighborhood. It let me start one more time and get it in the garage.

So, it's home. I'm assuming the master cylinder is the issue, but I've actually never had hydraulic issues with any of my 3rd or 4th gen cars.

Any thoughts?

Edit:

I walked out and opened the clutch reservoir and found it had about 1/4" of "fluid" in it. And by "fluid", I mean it was a layer of crap that looks like coffee grounds. I guess I'll flush it first and go from there.

So I decided to just start over. I'm currently waiting for a Ram adjustable master cylinder, Ram slave cylinder with T/O bearing, pilot bearing, Fidanza flywheel and Centerforce Dual Friction clutch to arrive from Sam Strano. That should about take care of that.

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php...9&ModelID=7

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php...9&ModelID=7

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php...9&ModelID=7

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails.php...9&ModelID=7

However, 2nd gear is a bit notchy and 4th might be a little bit as well. I'm not totally convinced that 4th needs attention, but my wife missed 4th one night and complained about it being a bit funny. Then I ground 3rd and 4th once each when babying it home with no clutch. Since it's going to be out on the floor, now is a good time to do a Stage 2 upgrade and freshen it up (see, making cheap projects expensive...just like it says).

I started to order the Stage 2 kit from thegearbox.org and they ran out before I could get my order in. So at this time I have pieces on the way from a few places and I need to order the Stage 2 kit from Hawks (not quite the same as the kit from thegearbox.org guys).

This stuff is on the way:

http://www.tickperformance.com/tremec-30-1...dy-cobra-viper/

http://www.tickperformance.com/tremec-14-3...dy-cobra-viper/

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/tremec-bor...or-cup-bushing/

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/tremec-t56...ds-set-upgrade/

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/tremec-t56...ds-set-upgrade/

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/tremec-6-s...ings-c7-3-c7-4/

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/tremec-ful...g-kit-t56-only/


Once I verify that I'm not missing other parts, I need to order this kit to finish it out:

http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/t56-transm...lt1-ls1-f-body/


That should about do it. Unfortunately I'm smelling a little bit of coolant and I was going to see if it needs a radiator (GM plastic tanks are known to leak) and/or water pump. And I was planning to rebuild the front suspension this winter (I have the parts) but I need the SKF X-tracker bearings and I wanted to put an upgraded brake package on the front. I had decided to let the transmission go until next winter (and do the cooling stuff and front end this year). Now I may be delaying some of that work for a while (I was going to just put a Dewitt's radiator in it and be done with radiator issues or potential ones). Too many expensive projects are attacking at the same time.

I told my wife she could teach her sister to drive a manual transmission on the Camaro because I was going to change the clutch and flywheel anyway. Sadly it had other plans. In good news, I have a 19k mile Z06 clutch and an LS1 flywheel that will be for sale soon. The clutch was changed when the new engine was installed. If anybody needs budget take out parts, look me up. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Kevin

Make sure you check the heater hoses on the firewall, especially that the motor has been out of the car.

Specifically "how"? Are they known to be loose or not attached right? Or do they drop the engine and stretch them? It came with receipts from a GM dealer for a re-manufactured LS1 that was installed in 2011 at 43k miles. It has 62k on it now.

Edit:

Ahh, for coolant leaks. Now I'm with you.

I wonder why Centerforce LS1 clutches are $300 cheaper everywhere than LT1 versions. I realize that in a lot of cases LT1 stuff has become "rare" all of a sudden but $300...

The LS1 clutch is "normal" the LT1 clutch works "backwards". The LT1 uses a "weird" "pull style" linkage and the pressure plate is "inside out". That seems to be the source of the price difference. The C4 Corvette uses the same style clutch (my 1991 did) and it was $650 or so. It's limited to a few applications and can't be used as "common parts" with other platforms or other 11" clutches, etc.

At this point I think I'm in for about $2,100 in parts...give or take. I won't be paying anybody for labor, so that will be a savings. I'm not sure what a GTO trans costs, but you might have been on the right track, though I'll have the stage 2 upgrade parts in mine when I'm done (not that I really needed them...at least not at the current power levels). And that includes a new flywheel, clutch and hydraulics that I would have needed anyway. I guess trans parts are about $900 of it.



Instead I went with some parts from the gearbox. I ordered this:

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3838217/3503769.htm

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3838217/3508384.htm

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3838217/3511686.htm

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3838217/5740219.htm

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3838217/3508296.htm (1-2 and 3-4, I had the others already)

I forget what else. It was cheaper than the kit from Hawks and I wound up with a few additional upgrades that were going to be extra cost in their kit. And the tax Hawks was going to charge me more than covered the freight, plus I got a black Friday discount.

Now I'm waiting for the craziness of Christmas to calm down before I take it apart. I'll likely pull the trans the first week in Jan and get moving on it sometime after that.

The cost of T56 parts is getting getting nuts. Mine needs so many parts I'm just going to buy the drop in magnum from D&D and recover some cost by selling mine as a core. Luckily cores are worth good money and people seem to want them.

The other thing that worries me is some parts seem hard to come by these days. I'm at a point where I'm tired of fooling around, I'll pay a little extra for the newer stuff.

True. Since over half of my budget was flywheel, clutch and hydraulics I feel "less bad" about the total cost and that I'd only have about $1k of "transmission money" in this. And this was someones daily driver and seems to have avoided being abused. I'm just touching up and upgrading some things while I have it out (and 2nd is a little notchy, but it's not bad enough to have to do something yet).

I thought the Magnum was pretty pricey and it wasn't a direct drop in? Am I incorrect?

Yeah, if I could get away with 1k in transmission parts, I would go the rebuild route. Mine is trashed though, and I haven't even pulled it apart. Among other things, it has a bad 5/6 rattle, which means it broke the press fit on those gears and is mostly likely thrashing what is left of the splines. I was looking at $1600+ in parts, it could be even more. At that point, I personally don't think it's worth it. Even worse, some of the parts I think I may need have very sketchy availability.

D&D performance makes a true drop in magnum for the f-body and GTO. They do the converion for you, but it hits you hard at $3700. Still cheaper than any other magnum option, and in the end you get a stronger, better shifting transmission. Another plus for me is the f-body 1-4 with the close ratio 5/6. In the end, I love my car and I want to build it my way. I already spend too much money on this thing, what the hell. Plus I figure it should last a long time. Factory trans lasted almost 80k (pretty much all track and ax miles), the magnum so do better. I really want to bullet-proof the car, so between the magnum and the speedway 9in I bought from Randy I should be where I want to be. I also do an amazing job of making rediculous justifications to buy car parts. I'm an idiot.

Based on the statement above, it's too bad you're not in Columbus, OH. I'm sure we'd get along just fine. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) We'd be broke, but we'd have fun cars... I think you'd fit in just fine around here.

There's a GTO transmission for sale in the LSX group on facebook for $1750 ($17-something) in Columbus, OH (Blacklick, it's about 20 minutes from me). I don't know where you're located or how I'd get it to you, but I can pick it up.

T56 anything is rising in cost quickly. The Pro Touring guys love the transmission and they know how to escalate costs if anyone does. Scarcity of the transmission in F-Body/GTO form is getting out of hand due to such a large portion of the cars being sold with automatics. In my business (vintage gaming) items can shoot up in value with little warning. Car stuff (besides high-end auctions) often changes hands with no record, unlike the video games which have several websites that track value. I'm more conscious of supply and demand issues than the average person, so when E30 M3s and Lamborghini Countaches skyrocketed out of nowhere it wasn't as shocking to me.

Kevin, appreciate the offer but I have my mind made up on what I want. Plus, I dislike the GTO 1-4 wide ratios, especially the 3-4 shift. Drops a lot of rpm, and those are the two gears I'm most often in on track. For the reasons GCrites said, I'm hoping I can get a decent amount of money if I sell my T56 as a core.

My original winter plans were to rebuild the front suspension (balljoints, tie rods, lower control arm bushings, new aftermarket upper control arms, etc, the rubber bits are 14 years old and seem to be in fine shape, but "while I'm in there"). The other plan was to deal with a faint coolant smell. The radiator is old (and we know what happens to GM plastic tank radiators as they age) and it seemed like a good time to refresh the cooling system. The engine was installed in 2011, so it's due for fresh coolant anyway. The clutch issues are going to keep me from being able to drive it onto an alignment rack until I break the clutch in, so the front end rebuild is off for now (though I have all the parts).

As for the coolant issues (I'm smelling a faint coolant smell at times, so it's not really leaking but I think it's weeping somewhere and I'm into "industrial strength deterrence", so I'll overdo it as usual), Jegs just put their Be Cool direct fit radiators on sale for less than the Dewitts that I was going to order (it was cheaper from Dewitts than from Jegs, though they might match the price...the Be Cool is now cheaper than that). Be Cool makes a good product and a solid radiator. So, I ordered one. I guess I'm a sucker for a sale. And that should be a good start on fixing any cooling system issues. I'm going to change all the radiator hoses and heater hoses and just start fresh. I think I'm going to do a fresh water pump. I wanted to upgrade to something like an Edelbrock water pump (I've used them on many project cars). However, the LS1 version is almost $400 and takes a special $98 pulley. Ouch. Maybe I'll save that until I build more motor some day... I'm guessing I'll just pick up an AC Delco from Rock Auto or somewhere.

Here's the one I have on order:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Be-Cool-Radiators/134/60028/10002/-1

Between suspension, transmission parts and now cooling system parts. It shouldn't take me long to have as much in the car in parts as I paid for the car. Seems about like my style (I'm working to live up to my signature...one project at a time). Oh well, as long as it's fun....right?

Sounds "FUN" (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ... How many miles are on the car ? I'm surprised the front suspension needs so much love ?

What clutch are you going with ? I think an LS7 clutch would work in my combo, BUT I also like to "over clutch" things because I seem to like to abuse them (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~DaVe

This post has been edited by BumpaD_Z28: Dec 21 2016, 02:19 PM

The car has 62k on it. Things aren't worn out. It's actually just fine. I did the front suspension and coil overs. Then the alignment rack showed what appears to be a bent spindle. I bought spindles and aftermarket upper control arms. Now I have to swap out the spindles and change the upper control arms. It seemed reasonable to just replace the other pieces while I'm here. Nothing is worn out or "dead", but I'm going to have most of it apart and the rest of the parts are fairly cheap (at this point), so I ordered the parts. I could have just thrown a spindle on it and the upper arms and called it a day but I was going to have most of it blown apart again so..... Overkill is what I do best. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I also have the adapters for the SKF X-tracker race hubs. I just need the hubs. My plan was to do a big brake kit when I did the front end. The transmission and cooling system updates are cutting into the brake kit and hub budget for now (and we're looking to build a house...so that's killing off the rest).

I have a Fidanza aluminum flywheel and a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch laying in the garage (with new Ram hydraulics). I've run that combo in my original 2002 Camaro, my 1992 Z28, my 1991 Corvette and now this car is getting the same setup. It's been a great package each time I've used it so I'm sticking with the devil I know.

I also found that Rock Auto has a Doorman brand replacement hydraulic line for the clutch master cylinder. $49 (Jegs has the same one for $149). I figured I may as well get rid of the one that's full of all the "gunk" that was in the master cylinder in the first place. I'll keep the old stuff and maybe I can clean it out and use it as a spare, but what's $50 more at this point? lol.

Hopefully the coolant smell is coming from the engine bay, and not interior, which would point to a bad heater core. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Heh, something similar is keeping me from tearing into our SVO. The radiator is leaking. I have new, polished, stainless cooling lines for the rest of the engine bay, as well as a header, ported intake and powder-coated valve cover. Since the cooling system would be open to replace the radiator, I might as well replace the cooling lines. Because the intercooler has to come off to replace the lines, I might as well replace the manifolds and valve cover. While everything is out, I might as well roll the car out and thoroughly clean the area where the radiator sits.

One thing just leads to another!!

On my original 2002 Z28, the water pump gaskets went bad about 44k miles and it was weeping coolant down the front of the block. I saw it during an oil change and fixed it. That took care of the smell. It's not strong enough to be inside and I'm not losing any real amount of water (the radiator had 1/4-1/2" "missing" when I took the cap off. It's not overheating, there's no "problem", but I'm fairly certain there is a very minor "weep" (I can't even call it a "leak" at this point). The car is really nice and I'd like to take care of it and keep driving it, so I'm fixing little irritating things while doing my best to be able to return the whole thing to stock if I should have to do so (the value suddenly goes nuts and I decide to put it all back stock and take a lot of money for it, etc).