Well I've now broken it in 3 different places. I've changed to a regular hammer thinking it'll have more shock than the rubber dead blow. I've been putting pressure on it, heating around the hub, and then hitting the back side with the hammer while turning it. I'd do a few passes then put a little more tension on it, then more heat and another pass with the hammer.

She's not budging.

It's ok though. My wife just came home with beer.

Ok I'm giving up on the 3 jaw puller. I'm going to work on removing the 3 bolts and using a pulled that threads into those bolts. The bolts are 10mm but slightly rounded from someone. So my socket slips before they budge. Any recommendations on what tool to use to get those out?

Don't you have to remove the center bolt before pulling it off?

Yes you do. It's loosened and backed out a good 1/2". It's there to push against so the puller doesn't bugger the crank shaft.

Holy defeated. Man I don't know what to do. So I went to lowes and got a rounded bolt exteafor set (needed one anyway) and easily got the 3 bolts out. Then I got my puller that screws into the three holes. I thought for sure this wood work. Well the good news is it never failed. The bad news, it didn't budge. That balanced was actually laughing at me. I had one hand holding a screwdriver in the flywheel, and the other on a 2 ft. breaker bar. I had so much tension on it I was actually afraid the whole thing might explode.

I really don't know why I tell people that I actually enjoy working on cars.

You could pull the rod and main caps loose, remove the crank and have it pressed off on a hydraulic press. Or if you have a pretty serious balancer puller, you could lean on it with an impact gun and then smack the balancer with a hammer (or try heating it, or both).

Hmm, that's a tiny detail that I missed. I think you're right.

Buy a flywheel holding tool. Seriously, it's worth the money. You don't have to worry about holding the flywheel in place and you can actually get some torque on that thing.

Also, get a bigger breaker bar and hang off the end of that f-er. LS1 balancers get pressed so hard onto the crank from the 200+ ft-lbs of torque originally applied on that ARP bolt. Oh, and heat the shit out of it. Make sure it's a real torch, need something stronger than propane.

Is there no danger of effing up the crank? I can't help but to think that I'm pulling/heating/beating on pretty much the heart of the engine.

The thrust bearing will be what sees most of the pounding. And you're replacing the bearings....right? I wouldn't go nuts on it with a sledgehammer, but a few whacks from a 3 lb hammer or similar shouldn't be a huge deal.

Also, I use one of these:

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Pro...756875/10002/-1

My first one was from Tavia (the manufacturer) but I loaned it to a friend (not sure who) and never got it back. So I have the Jegs version now (likely made by Tavia). It lets you pull crank bolt and use it to save the crank. They have Ford and Chevy SB versions. Not sure if it fits an LSx.

No the plan was to leave the bottom end alone. Since this car already has the longer, upgraded balancer bolt, I'm able to back it off yet still be able to grab lots of threads in the crank.

Steve you have a picture of the three jaw puller you are using? You may have to step up to much larger one that has the ability to grab the pulley from behind. The side benefit is the center bolt is much bigger and you can crank on them. I have better luck with a impact wrench.

Also as other have asked. You are 100 percent sure its not hitting on the bolt. I remember at some point of my career doing the same thing on something and saying that the bolt is loose which it was but it was hitting on a washer.

Is it possible the crank bolt screwed itself back in when you tightened the puller bolt down?

I've done a few balancers, fortunately with the motor in the car, manual trans stuck in top gear, brake set, wheels chocked... to keep the car from moving too.

It isn't an easy job.... good luck.

I got it!!!! Man that sucked. So today I went back to work and I noticed that I mushroomed the end of the puller. I also removed the bot just to rule out that it wasn't threading itself back it. Honestly, it may have. I used a smaller bolt and washer and was kinda expecting the balancer to just slip right off. But it didn't. So I actually stripped the end of the puller, so its trash. I seem to be pretty good at turning expensive things into junk. So I tried the 3 jaw again with the 3 screws removed, it separated into two pieces. I was then able to get a good grip on the inner hub. I put a lot of heat on the hub (as much as I could with propane), jammed my screwdriver and started putting some torque on it with the breaker bar. Just when I was getting ready to give up, it poped so loud it rang like a bell through the engine. I thought something broke. Then I realized the puller was just ever so slightly looser. Cranked again on it and it rang like a bell again. It did that no less than 2 dozen times, getting slightly easier each time. It's finally off.

That was awful. I just hope I didn't damage the bearings.

Holy shit-sticks!

Glad it's off. What a pain in the ass.

Nah, that's Kevin's job!!

(read his sig)

Glad you were successful. Kind of like me and that clutch project I had with my wife's Z. Luckily, I didn't break anything that wasn't mostly broken already.

I wonder if the balancer had some paint on the inner hub, which 'glued' things together once the engine heated up?

He's right you know!

I can't imagine why it was that stuck. My ATI balancer needed honed to fit the crank and I tried to install it without honing (I miscalculated the interference fit and didn't think it needed honed) and broke the balancer installer. So I'm amazed it could be that tight and still fit on the crank.

Whoa. I wasn't expecting that. No wonder it made such a racket! I can't believe it ran for so long like this.

Crap.

I put cam bearings in my SBC and bought the tools to do it. It wasn't too difficult and the tools weren't real expensive. Might be worth looking into it.

That's what I've been reading. But I can't help but to wonder what the main bearings look like.

But at the same time, my 215k mile M3 runs awesome. Maybe it's bearings would look equally worn?

I'll definitely replace the cam bearings. I'm just not sure if I should dig further. I'm thinking no.

You have it down this far, I'd try to do that work only once. Check the mains!!

A set of bearings are cheap. A set of bearings, couple of rods, and the crank regrind aren't.

I agree. I also have a new set of .010 rod bearings in the garage if you wind up having the crank turned. When we rebuilt the LS2 from the Trailblazer SS the new crank came with .010 bearings and we had ARP bolts put in and the rods honed .002 over so we needed new bearings.

I'd look and see what metal parts have gone through the oil pump and through the bearings. If the oil pan is off, pull a few rod and main caps and see how they look. Make sure you check the crank journals too. These engines don't use lead babbit on the bearings (or the LS2 didn't) so they are shiny. The journals will likely show wear more than the bearings.

Although the cam bearings don't usually look like that, the lifters and cams on the AFM cars do. Many just swap out the cam and offending lifter(s) and ease on down the road with no other issues.

I wanted to clarify this point. Wear is one thing, grooves that you can feel with your fingernail are a problem. If it's a little "shiny", it's likely no huge deal. Those cam bearings show some grooves and scuffing from the metal bits going through the engine. Pieces of that lifter and metal bits from that cam circulated through the oil system. The filter doesn't always get those on the first time through since most filters have a bypass built in and some of the junk can bypass the filter with the bypassed oil. And that junk is what gouges the bearings and the crank journals. Look at the cam journals, they should be smooth and you shouldn't see the grooves that are in them. They don't look terribly deep, but they are significant. All of this means the crank likely looks the same. I might expect that it needs turned.

This leaves you with the options of:

Put it together as is and run it until it comes apart, then buy a crate motor.

Look at the crank and have the bottom end handled now so that it may run a while and you won't have to pull it out again soon.

Gene My 13 Tahoe PPV had a lifter turn sideways. It ran for 16 miles and diag time. I can tell you the motor had a crap load of metal in it. The dealer went as far as to remove the oil pan and clean it out. YEAH the cam bearing in the photo above shows some grooving.
But this is the issue we have alluded to earlier. either go for the rebuild or bare bones it back together and wait for it to blow. Steve has to have at least a grand aprox into in just parts. If this thing blows up in 500 miles everything you just did will be junk. Its a tough choice.

Thanks guys! So the grooves are the big red flag, huh?

So we're talking a full rebuild? Any idea about how much money we're talking?

Thanks guys! Hope everyone had an awesome thanksgiving!!!

Turn the crank, consider new GM rods (just due to mileage and fatigue) or turn the crank and put new bearings in it. Clean the block (pull the freeze plugs and put it in a wallpaper pan full of hot soapy water and use oil galley brushes on it...that's how we did the LS2 when we rebuilt it). Put the crank and new bearings in it, fresh oil pump, replace the trashed cam and lifters and button it back up with a fresh timing chain. I think that's the "minimum" rebuild at this point.

I'm thinking about calling hawks and seeing if they have short block that I can just go get.

I've got an idea. I go get an 80k mile LS1 for $3k. Then I swap the heads and cam to my current engine, of course replacing the cam bearings. Then I sell the engine fully disclosing what I did and the unknowns. I'd bet I'd still be able to get close to $3k for it.

I know what you guys are all thinking....genius.

I just got off the phone with the engine builder. He is going to come up with some numbers to rebuild the bottom end including hot tanking the block. He said he'd even swing by the house and pick it up. Super nice guy! He made a good point that I've already got so many new parts, might as well go through the rest.

I called Hawks today and they said they have several long blocks available with 140-150k miles for $700. We would find one that came in running and will have a video of it running. Plus we can pull the vin and run it through carfax and see what we see.

What I like about this is then I can sell my block for whatever I can get for it. $2-300? That means it's only costing me $400-500 for a "new" bottom end. I could prick it up Thursday and get started putting everything together this weekend.

Or I get what I have rebuilt. It'd be brand new. But I'm guessing it'll cost at the very least double and I'm at the mercy of the engine builders timeline with Christmas coming up.

What do you guys think?

I'd get a quote from the builder for the machine work. $300 for a 150k "timebomb" is likely cheap enough to know that you'll just toss it in the trash when it blows up. It may run quite a while. If you can get everything refreshed and properly rebuilt for around a grand or so, I'd still go that route. Particularly if you're putting heads and a cam in it. Otherwise, throw the inexpensive engine in it and run that while you rebuild the engine you just pulled out. Or some combination of the above.

As far as the timeline, how soon do you plan to drive it? I'm guessing it's mostly going to be put away for the winter. If so, I can't imagine it being a huge rush to get it done. But that's up to you.

Well one thing is I don't know how long my dad will hang onto the car. He may want to sell it in a year, or never. He won't know until he starts driving it. And it's only a mild cam with stock heads. They're just being freshened up. I'm keeping the stock manifolds and intake, so I don't expect much more than 350 rwhp. The other thing is my dad is going to baby it. He doesn't drive like I do.

I'm ready for this car to be done. He wants to start driving it and I want my garage back. But I don't want to cut corners either. Btw, I haven't even winterized the boat yet. Very mild winters down here, so he could be driving it through the winter. I really would like to have it done next month.

I'll see what the builder says.

Ah, I guess you're a little farther south than I realized. In that case, grabbing a 150k take out might be worth it. I thought you were doing ported heads, so I was factoring in the cost factor of having the engine let go and destroy them.

In that case, get a quote and timeline from the engine builder (just so you know) and make the call from there. A solid used engine could be a decent plan. I thought he was planning to keep this car for a while, I didn't realize that wasn't set in stone.

Price both and check the time for each. If you can truly do the used engine for $300-400, it might be a good plan if he's not sure if he's keeping it.

Decision is made. I'm going to pick up a used short block. Engine builder is interesred in buying mine. Any idea what I should ask?

Considering the lifter bits floating around in it and all that, I'd be happy if I could get $500 for it. I suspect he's going to offer less ($300-ish). In sales there was a saying "you can always ask" (for a discount, for a price, etc). Tell him you'd like $550 and take what he offers (assuming it is $250 or more). He probably buys cores for "cheap" to rebuild, so I have no idea what he's paying or what might be "reasonable" to him. But you can always ask....

I'm going to jump in the truck and drive the 2 hrs to Hawks tomorrow morning and buy a used short block.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Btw, isn't it kinda sad that a complete relatively low mileage LT1 is worth about the same as an LS1 short block that needs to be rebuilt?

Note to self: drain oil before attempting to separate tranny from engine

Where did it leak from?

The front cover is off. When I pulled the tranny the whole thing tipped forward.

Look what I did today! They were great to deal with.



That's a 14,000 lb crankshaft out of some monster generator.



And one of its eight rod and pistons.




Here's what they gave me for $700. A 155k mile short block. It's out of a running and driving 2000 Camaro. The owner wanted a built iron block. Kinda nice to know it wasn't an unknown wrecked car.

Much nicer than the one seen here: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?s=&...st&p=188750

Almost like a BEFORE / AFTER

Congrats ! ~DaVe

The bearings sure look better when they haven't been "extrude honed" with metal grit. I'd feel a lot better about putting that one in "as is" (though I'd probably still look at the main bearings, or at least one). Based on that cam bearing compared to your old one, I'd say bolt it together and get it back in the car.

That bearing looks better than the cam bearing on my 40k ls1 when I changed the cam!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys! I'm pretty stoked. I'm going to just run it as is.

I'm going to order some parts tonight.

Intake manifold gaskets
Knock sensors w/harness
Lifter trays

I obviously need to move the clutch/flywheel over to the new block. Will an LT1 clutch alignment tool work?

As well as anything.

I once used a 3/4" (I think) deepwell (1/2" drive) Craftsman socket. I put a 1/2" to 3/8" step down adapter and a 3/8" to 1/4" step down in that (so I could theoretically turn it with a 1/4" ratchet). I put exactly one wrap of electrical tape on the socket and it fit snuggly into the splines on the clutch disk. The 1/4" socket adapter fit inside the pilot bearing and the 1/2" to 3/8" adapter "keyed" on the radius of the pilot bearing. It's likely the first time I ever installed a clutch that I didn't have issues with clutch alignment. Those plastic alignment tools always resulted in "heartache".

I recently bought the tool from Jegs that has arbors to fit tight in the bearings. We used it on the 6 speed swap and it was better than the plastic one, but I think my socket version worked best. Just find the closest socket that isn't too large, and grab the electrical tape. Have someone push in on the socket while you snug the bolts to hold the clutch from shifting.

Dude, you crack me up.

And I'm totally taking your advice

It was like 2 am and I was trying to get a car back together. Or that's my guess (I really can't remember). The socket is still in my tray with a single (cleanly cut) wrap of tape around it. I'll have to check and see which size it is.

I'm a "been there/done that" kinda guy. I give advice based on standing on my head under cars at all hours of the night (usually successfully, sometimes not so much), or doing crew chief duties on my friends AIX (AV8SS, SVRA, HSR, etc) Mustang and the creative things we did to keep it running. There are lots of tools with chunks cut out of them, box ends converted to line wrenches, needle nose pliers with the tips ground down to become snap ring pliers. I own and buy a LOT of tools, but sometimes I still don't have what I need.

I recently rebuilt the front end of my neighbors 2002 Ford F150. I didn't have the special ball joint adapter for Ford 4WD trucks with the balljoint press (and I already had one ball joint out before realizing I needed it). I found an aluminum coil over "hat" in the garage (the upper perch that goes over the top "stud" on the shock) and it was heavy enough to get the job done....even though I was running the balljoint in with my 1/2" impact gun at full power. So, coil over hat=Ford 4WD balljoint adapter.

That's how this stuff happens.