Man I'm excited. Dailydriver posted his car for sale and I could tell from that add that it was much loved and well taken care of. Unfortunately a nasty knock on the engine forced him to sell it. I thought this could be the perfect car for my dad.

This car looks amazing for having 172k miles. It is pretty rare to find a 1 owner car these days.

So, first things first. I had the car for all of 30 seconds before I broke it. I dragged the exhaust pulling into my driveway and separated the car back from the y pipe. So today I fixed that so the exhaust wasn't dragging on the ground anymore. Next, I need to make room for all the parts Dave packed into the car. It's completely full of parts. Thanks Dave! And finally, I need to figure out what's up with the engine. It has a nasty knock. It has great oil pressure, runs smooth, no smoke, but knocks really bad. I think it's a lifter, but I don't know. I think I'm going to pull the valve covers and see what I find. As well as this car has been taken care of, I'm hoping the engine is healty. I'd love to just replace some lifters and let my dad enjoy this car for a while.

Anyway, let me know what you guys would do to diagnose this knock.


https://youtu.be/AJUsOvgpnmg

https://youtu.be/otobYePJLyo

WOW I don't think I'd keep running it, ...

but get the valve covers pulled and I'm guessing broken parts will be present

Drain the oil into a clean pan and look for metal. I found a spun rod bearing in the TBSS LS2 we rebuilt a year or so ago by finding bearing material in the oil when I drained it. It looked like metal flake paint. That was a sure sign the engine needed to come out. I haven't had a chance to listen to the video yet. If you find needle bearings on the oil pan drain plug magnet, start looking at the rocker arms. If you find metal flakes in the oil, I'd suggest that it's time for it to come out onto a stand and be rebuilt.

If you go to Home Depot, you can buy a large "wall paper pan". It's a big tray made of a flexible black plastic that works great for catching antifreeze, oil, ATF, gear lube, etc. They aren't too expensive and a clean one is great for looking for bearing material with a bright light as you slosh the oil in it. And brake clean hasn't softened one up yet (backing my 3rd gen down off the ramps with the pan still under it....that tends to soften them up a bit...lol).

One hillbilly way to find out if it's in the bottom end is to drain the oil and refill with straight 50 or 60w. If it quiets down, it's almost certainly a rod/main bearing. If it doesn't, could be a lifter.

Either way, I wouldn't run it too long. Something is definitely wrong and more run time increases the chance of carnage.

Yeah I have no plans on going anywhere in it.

I just got off the phone with the original owner. He told me it started after getting off the highway. Just cruising in 6th. When he came to a stop, he heard the knocking. That was back in January. He has changed the oil 4 times since then, trying differently weight oils. No metal was every found in the oil. 2 months ago, he changed the rockers and pushrods.

So, it's not the bottom end. The car has driven nearly every day for 6 months with this knock and it's not making metal. If it was in the bottom end, there's no way it'd still be running. It's probably a failed lifter.

That really sounds like valve train. Use a long screw driver to narrow down the side. But if it is. half the motor has to come out to change the cam and lifters. Maybe it even spit a rocker arm bearings out and has a bunch of play in rocker arm pre-load. You can remove the coil pack assembly and then valve cover. I'd look around first. You could run it with the valve cover off also.

I saw you posted while typing. If rockers/pushrods have been changed I too would suspect Lifters. But I would want to know which one. By the sounds of it. You should be able to run the engine and find which rocker arm has the extra play.

As John said, pull the covers and look for a dead rocker or broken spring before running it anymore. It really sounded to be louder on the passenger side when I listened to the video.

Gave her a bath tonight! 172k miles people.









My 2 yr old saying "cheese!"





3 good size dents. These are the only dings on the car. I'm going to email a good car detailed in my area. He recently posted link to a guy who removed hail damage out of a hood without damaging the paint. But let's look at that shine!

Tip him! Painless dent removers are awesome!,

I need to find a good one for my car. It has a small assortment of door dings in the rear quarter panels and one in the hood???

I know, right? I've never used them. Figured those dents would be easy for them.

I'll try to get ahold of the guy and let you know how much. I have absolutely no clue what "normal" is. You do the same.

I'm jealous. That's a lot cleaner than the 165k mile '98 I picked up as a parts car for not much less money.

I had to snap it up though with all people parting them out then asking $2500 for the T56 swap or $3500-5000 for the engine/T56.

Yep, it's the right side. It's parked until later this week when I have a chance to pull the valve covers.

Yeah I bought it sight unseen. Dave couldn't send me pictures. So it was a little scary. But the price was right so if the car was trash, I would be able to part of out and probably end up making money. That would be a last resort.

Needless to say I was thrilled when the car showed up.

Heh, 2yo saying "cheese", thinking "yeah, this will be my car. You better fix it, Daddy!".

Oh yeah she was totally thinking that!

I've been busy with recurrent training and had to rest my little brain so I decided to finally unpack the car. I didn't vacuum or anything, just pulled the many many boxes of parts out of it.



Drivers seat.





I have no idea where I'm going to put all of this. I haven't gone through them yet.

Sounds deadup just like my LT1 with a bad lifter. I vote valvetrain. If that fixes the noise then get an oil analysis to determine you don't have a bearing issue as well.

Use a mechanics stethoscope and you should be able to pinpoint the cylinder.

Lift the valve covers. If it was over revved, like a miss where you went down instead of up. I did it stock and bent 3 push rods. Almost as loud as yours.

A really easy cheap fix if that is all that bent. Also our cars will spit roller bearings out of the rockers, with a similar sound.

I haven't even looked through all the boxes yet. Everything from new side mirrors, parking brake cables, lever, air vents, air filter, spark plugs, exhaust manifold gaskets....it just keeps going.











Now that I moved all the parts to the walk out crawl space, I'm going to pull the valve cover and see what I see.

I'm thinking I really should have bought that car.

Funny, I was just think I'm really glad you didn't

Well there's you're problem....


https://youtu.be/Ap1lFS98O1w








Pushrods is not bent and the bolt holding the rocker was tight, so that points to the lifter. Head is coming off.

Years ago I had an aggressive LS1 cam (227/235 110+2 .650/.650 valve lift on Comp LSK lobes) using Caddy lifters, OEM lifter trays and Manton 3/8" pushrods. Eventually I had a noise and found that the tray had cracked and the lifter had rotated and become seized in the bore. It's been so long I don't know how similar my noise was to yours.

Steve? Does it have that length push-rods on all Cylinders?? Kinda remember having to use a 7.425. Stock cam?

Jim my 13 Tahoe just had a DOD lifter rotate just cruising down the road!!!

I remember a stock valve train LS1 using 7.400" pushrods, but the LS6 variants would need to be ~.030" longer to account for the slightly smaller base circle.

Stock Camshaft Numbers -

Base Circle Dia.:
'97-'04 LS1 = 19.7mm / 0.776"
'01 LS6 = 19.3mm / 0.760"
'02 -'04 LS6 = 19.0mm / 0.748

Intake manifold is off.

Not sure what you might be willing to upgrade while you're taking things apart. That looks like the original LS1 valley cover, you might want to look into upgrading it to the LS6 cover (and new style of coolant crossover lines) if you can find the parts. You'll need to grind inside the valley to make it fit, though. Also put a dam of RTV around the top of the knock sensor holes to prevent water intrusion... lookup TSB #02-06-04-023. The LS6 intake manifold is a nice value upgrade over the LS1 unit if you don't already have one (and can find one). The intake ports are surprisingly clean.

Oh, and it's been 5 hours, that PS head should already be off

Ha I gave up for the night. I have the rockers off and pushrods out and placed in a Cheerios box to keep them in order. Just have to pull the manifold and then the head tomorrow. I think the plan is to just get the thing running right now and figure out the grand plan later. For all I know it could have a bottom end problem or something. So that being said, is there anything wrong with just replacing the passenger side lifters? If my dad does want the car, I know a cam is in his future, so we'd probably upgrade to the ls6 manifold and replace the other lifters at that time.

It's so tempting to take that first step off the slippery slope, but I really want to just get it fixed and enjoy it for as little money as possible right now, even if it causes me more effort down the road. Plus I've never driven a stock LS1, so it'd cool to experience that.

You could probably get away with just replacing the PS lifters, but I'd try to stick with the same model lifters unless you want to risk having to use different length pushrods on the PS to get the correct preload. I doubt you'll find a half set of lifters, though, so you'll probably have to eat the cost of a whole set of new lifters now even though you only choose to replace half.

You're right, though, see what you must replace before looking at optional parts.

If I replace the right side with OEM lifters, they should be the same as the original lifters, correct? The new replacement lifters are LS7 lifters, which are just a better design.

Like I said, I just want to fix what's broke then see what I have. I'm going to buy all 16, but just replace all the right side lifters while the head is off.


Getting my parts list together. I'll update this as I go.

Lifters

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-309-gmdelphi-...le-lifters.aspx


Head gaskets

https://m.summitracing.com/cart/add/NAL-12498544


GM head bolts (1 side)

https://m.summitracing.com/search?keyword=12498545

Trays

https://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12595365

LS7 lifters are the OEM replacement for the LS1 lifters. Assuming you currently have LS1 lifters, then they should be a direct swap without having to change pushrods. The lifter trays (12595365) are inexpensive and are considered something to always replace when swapping lifters, also.

Same lifters currently on sale here:
http://www.texas-speed.com/p-309-gmdelphi-...le-lifters.aspx?

Oh wow thank you!!!

I was just coming in to add that same thing. You have to replace them with the head off. This shouldn't be an issue since you're replacing the lifter anyway.

I added 4 of them from summit. So lifters, trays, head bolts and head gaskets. Anything else I'm missing?

I know your trying to keep it simple. You might want to get the head off first. I would suspect possible cam damage from that lifter flopping around..

Wouldn't the pushrod show signs of damage before the cam was damaged?

I'll wait to make the order until I get the head off. Headed to the garage now.

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

Yes you should be able.. the lobe should look the same as others. Look at the lifter roller very good!!!!!

Check this link for some photos at the beginning..
LS1 tech

Thank you.

Some other parts off the top of my head you may need, depending upon what you need to tear down to find all the damage. I think these numbers are correct, you should verify.

lifters 12499225 (per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (per head)
head bolts 12498545 (not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (per head)
front cover seal 12585673 (if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 (if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 (not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944
assembly lube (if you have to pull the cam and it'll sit awhile between cam installation and first firing, else use oil)

If you find that the cam is not re-usable, then you have these common methods to remove it. You can look on LS1Tech for details and experiences.

1) buy wooden or aluminum dowels to slide into the front of the DS head to keep the lifters from potentially falling into the oil pan when you pull the cam out
2) Buy a set of 8 long pen magnets, and insert them into the pushrod hole and touch the magnetic end to the lifter and bend the clip on the opposite end to keep it from falling in.
3) Russian roulette. Some people get lucky and the trays hold the lifters in while you pull out the old and re-install the new cam. If you're unlucky, you may need to pull the oil pan to remove the dropped lifters.
4) Remove the DS head, and since you're already there put in the new lifters at the same time.

I usually find the best pricing on Amazon, gmperformancemotor.com, or rockauto.com (cross-referencing to the ACDelco part). I'm also partial to soaking the hydraulic lifters over night in oil before I install them; shouldn't be needed with hydraulic but it's for my personal peace of mind. Make sure you follow the properly head bolt and (if necessary) crank bolt tightening procedures.

Isn't it a popular mod to get ARP head bolts so you don't have to mess with those stupid TTY headbolts? Especially since it looks like a repeat of this job is in this car's future?

Yes. But it's only $25 for a set of bolts for one head compared to $200 for the ARP set. I just want to get the car running and driving for a little moneys as possible to see what I have.

Look what I did today!!! Looks like the cam is coming out. #6 lifter spins freely, moves up and down from the cam to the "spot". That'd where it gets stuck. It will absolutely not come out. It's probably mushroomed. #7 looks bad also. Really pitted. So the cam has to come out. The good news is the lifter will probably drop down once the cam is out and then I can get it out that way. Hopefully the bore isn't messed up.








One of the good lifters


#7

Yuk, graphite head gaskets The replacement gaskets will be MLS. You can use something like a razor blade, sharp wood chisel, or sharp plastic scraper to get that residue off. I've read that Permatex Gasket Remover also works, if you can find it. Just be careful you don't cut into the aluminum and also get the surfaces clean enough.

If you can't remove the #6 lifter from the top of the block, and you pull the cam... if the lifter falls it should end up in the oil pan

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...rface-need.html

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...ff-pistons.html

Seems like a lot of deposits on the valves, might want to look into whether that is normal for the mileage or indicates additional maintenance is suggested (worn guides, bad seals, etc.)