it won't buff out with the grinder ?

You're not the first one to learn this lesson.

I didn't figure I was, but I really never thought much of it...until now. Oh well, just means the window is coming out so I can weld the bars that run through the firewall. 3/16ths lexan is $255 from Harwood, through Jegs. Now we know.

Ya, grind slag embeds itself into glass. That price on 3/16" is really low - are you sure it is mar resistant coated? GE's trademark is MR-10, there are others. If it is uncoated you won't like it, polycarbonate is very soft and scratches extremely easy. Also, most (NASA and SCCA, at least) sanctions require coated windshield.

yup, does the same thing to mirror glass too

Start on that cage yet? I want to see how it fits...

It's somewhere between California and Ohio as I type this. Once it arrives, it's probably going to be too cold in my uninsulated garage to work on it, so it's likely to be stuffed in the corner until spring. Or that's my guess right now.

Cage kit is in. I have the tracking number and I just have to go to the hub and pick it up. I hope to get it tonight or one day this week.

4 pieces - looked like this before I strapped it to the pallet:
There's a bag of tabs and spoiler hardware wrapped up in the bundle with the main hoop.

I should be picking the cage up after work tonight.

Harwood says it's coated.

http://www.eharwood.com/catalog/product.php?productID=130

Now, they say "stock cut" or "flush cut". Stock cut is for using the stock trim. Am I going to reuse the stock rubber gasket? (I'm really asking). Flush cut is oversized. I'm betting it will be easier to screw down the stock size glass, and glue the rubber gasket back in place, but I could be wrong.

Anyone have any input?

Also, am I farther ahead to just get a painless wiring harness for the engine, a moroso fused switch panel to bolt to the roll cage and then gut everything but the brake lights?

The Five Star Lexan I've been using is always oversized - adds cut to size and finish steps to the install. If you can get stock size definitely go for that.

No need for trim - remove all the trim and bolt the Lexan down with some thin weatherstrip. I use weld nuts in the front, bolt/nuts in the rear. #6 with flange cup washers:






If you have 30-40hrs to invest, it is possible to get the stock harness near the weight of a Painless, but it will still be >15yrs old. Eric's car uses a FAST harness, with pieces of the OEM harness grafted in for brake light, ABS, and mirror circuits. Blue Sea 12 position fusebox at the far end of the electrical panel:

Maybe not painless, but yeah, you might be depending how much your time is worth. Like Alan said I've probably already spend 40+ hours on mine and still looks like crap (extra lengths that need to be bundled in a loop etc), and I'll have probably another 20 in it to get it looking good with a new fuse panel etc. Now if I were to do it again it would take me 1/5th the time because most of the work is learning and tracing the circuits and I would have started with a new panel from the start. I fiddled with the factory panel too long. It is a rat’s nest DISASTER. Ditch that thing right away.

If it were me I wouldn't do Painless because the panel comes pre-wired and then you have to make the connection to all the individual plugs etc which is a bigger PIA than it may seem. I bought a Centech panel http://www.centechwire.com/catalog/panels/pdp1b.shtml that I will feed the factory harness into. I prefer that over a pre-wired panel since you can get all your wires tightly routed to the panel, bundled, and secured then the last thing to do is cut them to length and feed them into the panel. IMO, that will end up a better quality appearance.

If you want a full harness and panel that is the opposite of the Painless (connectors connected, but not panel) check out these places:
http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BB%2D99
http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/wiring_kits.html
http://www.kwikwire.com/wh_14CircuitStreetrodwiring.html

Or you can save some money and go half way like I am doing.

Another word of caution about the Painless TPI engine harness is I've heard that they don't use a VSS circuit which may give you some issues.



Alan, that car looks fan-freaking-tastic. Nice job as always. Do you make your own lexan supports? Are you a 5 star dealer?

http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcata...archField=60103

It says they have a VSS input?

Thanks, Stan. Yes on both questions.

On the instrument panel - note those vertical supports on each side that attach to the IP about 1/2way up - those are pivot points. There is a lock arm on the bottom next to the starter button - loosen one screw to release the lock arm, and the whole IP flips 180deg to put the backside facing the driver. Quicker and easier than pulling the windshield to fiddle with instruments.

Ok, good. The "TPI and TBI Engine Swaping Manual" that my dad got years ago said that Painless did not have a VSS. Its good that they added it.

More progress (slow, but I'll take anything right now).

I made rear floor plates. They aren't spectacularly pretty, but I think they'll do once they are fully welded in place.

The dash is almost completely loose. I have to get a few last connections and it's going to be out on the floor.


And if anyone has a good idea about cutting these SFC's out...let me know. I'm sure I'll come up with something, but it's not looking like too much fun.

The best thing I can think of is a die grinder & thin cut off wheels. Try to cut mostly on the SFC as much as possible. Find Stan's post when he cut his off for a look see. Have fun or get Stan to do it. He's practiced lately
Terry

That job sucks (unless you have a lift, it might suck a little less). I like you TB but you'd have to pay me a lot lot lot of beer, chicken wings, and pizza to do that job for you.

Like TSHACK said, thin cut off wheels and cut the SFC rather than the chassis. I had to use a Dremel in a few places that the big boy couldn't reach.

Get a face shield. Plan on laying on your back getting showered with metal shavings. I covered my tires with a towel to protect them from the metal that was flying directly at them and I ended up starting the towel on fire once or 2x. Plywood would be better. I also tapped up the openings to the shocks to keep metal out of them and covered the rest of the "sensitive stuff" as best as I could. Removed the rod end LCA's.

I had some sheet metal repair work to do in the LF corner since I "welded the SFC's in a little too good".

I noticed the underside of your car is free of undercoat and looks rust free. NICE!

I feel bad sometimes when I remember that I'm building a race car out of a truly beautiful, rust free, never wrecked (that I can tell) '92 Z28 hardtop that was a factory 5.7 car. It is almost too nice to be a race car, but it needed too much $$$ in "stuff" to be a street car. So, it's going to the track.

I'm thinking a 7" cut off wheel in an angle grinder should get through most of that.

And, I can get wings and beer and pizza. There is a great wing place between my house and Jegs (2 miles?). You know you want to come visit...

Two words - Plasma. Cutter.

I'll ask about that used one for sale if ya want. You'll need air though (not that you're not just waiting for a reason).

I doubt they have enough beer wings and pizza.

I used a 4.5" wheel myself. I don't think my grinder has enough grunt for a 7", and you might find that the 7" will get in the way sometimes

They have LOTS of wings...

I was going to buy a 7" angle grinder. A 4.5" will not reach the back side of the tubes on my SFC's. I did pick up some 14" long sawzall blades to try first. I've got 3 sawzalls and that saves me buying a grinder.

And yes, check on that plasma cutter.

Not to worry, I'm making a street car out of my 1991 Formula. Hopefully Alan will have some pics of that soon!

I LOVE Formula's. Ahh, I miss my '89.

I have many 4/4.5" angle grinders (Makita FTW!) and a Milwaukee 7" - the 7" rarely gets used 'cause it doesn't fit anywhere. The thin cutoff wheels from McMaster are working the best for me.

Are you saying that the SFC's are welded both to the sill pinch weld and to the pan? Don't worry too much about getting into the pinch weld flange - try to stay below the spot welds. Once they are off you can clean up the whole pinch weld and seam weld it. If the SFC's are welded to the pan, too, that will be a bitch - weld material is deadly on sawzall blades, but that is probably the only way you're going to get in there. Might try a tungsten carbide blade.

Ditto what everybody else wrote about protecting yourself and the rest of the car/shop from hot grinding slag. You WILL start a fire doing this job - keep a jug of water or a water soaked towel handy.

Plasma cutter isn't the best for this kind of work - cutting thru thick/irregularly shaped stuff can cause the flame to get redirected places you don't want it to go, even back at the operator.

I also miss my '89 Formula a white with black interior 350 "Wednesday" car. This '91 is going to make me feel better about selling that car!

Plates look good.

Dash is easier to deal with after column removal, and column removal easier before dash is dropped.

Alan,

I was thinking of a 7" to cut through the SFC (cut it off of the plate) by the rear LCA mount. A 4.5" angle won't get clear through that pipe. I can buzz the welds off of the pinch weld, no problem. It's cutting the front and rear loose that's likely going to be no fun.



Thanks! I had some concerns as I was working that out. I almost tossed the first one and started over. But I think they'll hold.



Now you tell me. (I didn't really ask, I just did things my way, as I tend to do).

Well, the center roof support has been removed, the main hoop is fitted, 4 of the floor plates fitted and the SFC's have been cut off of the car. A local chassis shop welded them in, and they were really in there. I used a 4 1/2" angle grinder with cut off wheels and a sawzall with a 14" demolition blade to reach the things that needed reached and cut the stuff that needed cut. I need to clean up the cuts and grind out some leftovers, but overall, it went well. I only have a few spots where the cutoff wheel cut into the chassis and I can fix those with a quick blast of the mig welder. I completed the job without starting any fires. I had some smoke rolling out of a few places for a while, but no fire. I did managed to get enough grinding slag on my welding gloves that I felt my hand starting to burn inside the glove. So, wearing a cheap pair of harbor freight welding gloves while grinding (and a face sheild) was probably one of my better ideas (I wasn't tearing up my good welding gloves for that job). The garage floor is one serious mess of grinding slag and cutoff wheel dust.

I dropped the exhaust to get the one SFC out. While I was under the car, I noticed that I seem to have power steering fluid "everywhere". I think I overfilled it the last time, but I'm going to have to clean things up and find the source of this leak, if there is one. This may be a good reason to just go through the car in the near future.

I'll try to get some photos once I get back out to the garage. It's been a long day and I'm going to get some sleep. But any progress is good progress.

awesome. Keep plugging away.

The serpentine setup makes the PS pump puke fluid out under high RPM because it tilts the pump. Either run the pump with barely enough fluid to touch the bottom of the stick (and still have it blow out) or take another pump, cut the neck off the reservoir, and use a piece of radiator hose and a couple hose clamps to extend the neck.

I just did the radiator hose trick and this is the first time I've ever been on track (since HPDE1 in 2005) and not blown out PS fluid. I even over filled the reservoir on accident!

Ok. Finally a real status update. I've been some combination of lazy and just uninspired to work on this thing lately, so progress has been slow...or non-existant. However, tonight I finally have some photos (and questions for Alan).

Pics:

Ok, the SFC's came out without doing too much damage.

I got the main hoop located and holes in the floor so I can weld the top of it. Tapped the floor plates under it and the main hoop is really tight against the roof (you can slightly feel the bulge when you run your hand over the roof skin). Is "really tight" actually too tight?

Alan I'm hoping this is where you wanted it located...

I can't speak for Alan, but move the main hoop back if you can. Notch the frame rail to body gusset and slide it in there. You can probably move the main hoop back 4-5".

I wish I would've stressed that more what I had my cage built. It might seem trivial now, but it leaves a lot more room for a triple master cylinder pedal setup/etc down the road.

PS- if this is going to be an AI car, you might want to search for an old thread of mine about gutting the roof. I took 15lbs out of mine then welded what was left of the roof to the halo bar. It's bad sprung weight, high and outside.

Might be a little rearward than I intended at the base - notch a door bar and see if you'll be able to fit it to the main hoop without notching the door frame. You can take a little out of the frame, but weld it back up when you're done. Also, don't weld the plate in yet, don't even tack - those plates will be in and out of the car many times before your ready to weld them in.

Too tight is just right

Also, the angle that the main hoop will end up at will depend on the trim and fitup of the Apillar tubes - get those fitted before the backstays.

Am I a half inch back from your target or "inches"? I looked at the photos I took of Dave Schotts car and used the other links you gave me and my best guess was right there. However, it can be moved if needed. Is that the notch in the roof you were suggesting that I use, or should the top be forward too? I know the A pillar bars are going to determine the final location, but I was wondering if I shouldn't be targeting that particular notch after all.

The Apillar tubes will determine where the top of the main hoop goes - fit them up next. Then, the middle door bar will determine where the base of the main hoop goes - I put door bar fab at the end of the build sequence, but since you have prebent door bars you'll have to position the main hoop to fit them. Fit the middle door bars between Apillar and main hoop, mark those locations and go back to the build sequence.

Progress!!! Thanks to Billy (Racerdad916), I finally got back to the garage and ripped the dash out (ok, we finished ripping the dash out) and started fitting tubing.

The front bar is just tacked at the top. I'm intending to push it out towards the circle you see on the floor plate. However, I have to see where the door bars land before doing the final fitting (as far as spacing from the wall). Alan, is this about where you wanted it? I looked at my pics of Dave Schott's car and I think I'm right where I should be (but tell me if I'm not).

Looks good, but you should not have tacked the plates in - you'll need to cut them out and grind the tacks smooth. Read the whole build sequence before going any further.

We tacked it down to let us hammer form the plate to the wall. I expected to have to cut/grind them out.

Crap! Your catching up with me!

Wow. I get one tube fitted and you're in danger? You better get moving...heck, I better get moving.

Besides getting some seam welding done with my new MIG, I haven't made much progress in the past month. Softball 2-3x per week, a new puppy, and a landscaping project have been keeping me busy. Now vacation next week.

Yeah, I gotta get on the stick. Work is hinting at another short layoff, so that might be an unfortunate opportunity.

Here we are in August and I've not accomplished anything since June. Racerdad916 and I put in another hot afternoon of fitting, adjusting and such and pretty much wasted all the time we spent in the shop. No real progress was made and I'm probably behind where I was when we started the day. I managed to cut the angle wrong on one of the back stays and that tube is now back up tubing for verticals for my door bars. We did cut the windshield out of the car so we have some room to work, that is probably the best thing I can say about this weekend.

I'm actually reaching the point of being torn about what to do with this thing. I spent most of the weekend considering just parting it all out, selling off my two shells and looking for a car like Gary K has advertised, or a Corvette, or going out and buying a new TDI Jetta and dumping the truck and the project car. I'm not sure if I'd do it or not, but I'm starting to think I'd be a lot happier some days if I didn't have this thing on jack stands in my garage (on the other hand, after buying 4 new VW's between 2000 and 2004, I swore I'd never do that again either). It's worth far more in pieces than it is assembled, but I don't think it's worth nearly enough, even in pieces to actually get rid of it.

I'm can't offer advice on whether you should keep this car or not, but friends don't let friends buy new VW's. It's a huge money pit. Yes, the diesels get great mileage, but a few electrical gremlins and some engine problems and all your fuel savings go down the drain in repairs.

I know, I bought 3 brand new 2000 VW's (2.0 liter "base" golf 5 speed, 1.8t Jetta 5 speed and a 2.8 liter VR6 GTI 5 speed) and a new 2004 (1.8t GTI 5 speed). Every single one of them was in the shop...a lot. I know the service guys really well. They had my first GTI for about 8 weeks sorting out a transmission issue, as well as about 100 other trips.

Keep building.

I get to this point as well. Geez, it seems like nothing works or fits or you find yourself having to tear it all down again in order to accomplish another target.

But each time I've been at this point and do work past it, I find that the car is 80% of 80% complete. Assemblies I've been fretting over and getting frustrated with bolt up and a huge chunk of the car is in place. When you see it begin to come together, that is the motivating part.

Billy (Racerdad) says the same thing, "We'll just keep plugging away".

Don't you dare get this car ready and then "do it again." That being said, seeing that kind of progress on the car makes me really wish I was up there helping! And before you can say it, I know the offer stands, don't worry, I'll get up there some time!