Found a TPI harness from techrods (same guys Raybob used for his LS1) on Ebay and as soon as I get some answers about possible modifications, I should be buying one and starting towards getting this car running.

Ok, I purchased a Techrods harness from ebay tonight and they are adding the vehicle speed sensor to it, deleting the AC sensor and setting it up for the correct distributor. Speaking of distributors, I sold my '87 and up MSD pro billet and coil so I could put a carb on this thing, and I just wound up buying one back. That was an expensive lesson. I also picked up a MSD 6AL box, some rev limiter chips, a blaster SS coil and an MSD mini starter. As soon as I see the harness, we'll get the engine wired up and get back to work on the cage.

My techrods wiring harness arrived this week so I figured it was time for the long overdue list of the collection of new parts. Most of this won't go in until the cage is done and the car is painted.

The collection of new MSD parts.

Jegs starter switch panel and distributor hold down.

Autometer in dash mount tach (the other gauges are in the garage, no pics yet).

(2) Painless wiring 250 amp alternator disconnect switchs and wire as well as a Painless 4 position fuse block.

Tru Cool 36 row oil cooler, Perma Cool 8" electric fan and a fan wiring kit.

MSD mini starter.

Techrods wiring harness (with 4 fuse fuseblock and fuel pump relay as well as optional speedometer wiring).

(not shown) Two push loc #6 an 90 degree fittings to plumb my new (super overkill) 13 row Earls P/S cooler.

We refitted the cage yesterday, moved the main hoop forward, reformed the rear floor plates, fitted the A pillar bars, halo bar and the brace for the halo bar. I'll try to get some pics posted in a bit.

Would "we" mean you and racerdad916?

um, ya. Made alot of progress except for the attacking roof bar........ film at eleven.

IMG 2685 is the view from the front.
2686 is the drivers side A pillar area
2687 is the roof (the center bar isn't centered and it's not tacked in either)
2688 is the main hoop on the drivers side
2689 shows the location of the floor plates
2690 shows the cage position compared to the door opening


The rest are all pretty self explanatory.

What inspired the purchase of the spool gun?

Looks like the car is coming along great. Keep the updates coming.

I wound up with a spool gun because I sucked at tig welding aluminum and (mistakenly) thought a spool gun would be an easier way (and I have an argon bottle on the tig). I REALLY suck with a spool gun, and my tigging is looking a lot better these days. But I own it now.

'Bout time you did something other than buy more shit

Looking good. I like the A-pillar fit-up.

Looks like you insulated your garage too. Nice!


Your mistake was getting the MIG first. If you got the TIG first, you'd been forced to get good at it.

I just finished aluminum welding project #2. It is fussy stuff. #3 starts soon.

Buying more crap is the easy part (finding enough change under the couch to pay for it is a bit more difficult).



Alan did a nice job on the bars. We tweaked one by parking my truck on the leg and using a floor jack to tweek the bend a bit. I'm not sure it moved much, but we got it in there.



I never meant to own a Tig, that was a "happy accident" (as Bob Ross would say). However, after finding 1/16" Ceriated tungsten, my aluminum work has improved a bunch (tungsten and practice). My work on steel is getting pretty decent and aluminum is coming along. I bought the spool gun since it seemed like a good idea.

They say pure tungsten is the best for Aluminum, tho I've used the Ceriated too, doesn't make a huge difference. Try larger dia - I use 3/32" tungsten and 1/16" 4043 rod to TIG the brake duct plenums, which are .065" and .100" 6061. Clean everything with a dedicated flapdisc just prior to welding, and make sure your purge is adequate. I have a clean scrap of Al plate that I use to ball the tip with in DC+, then to AC to weld.

Cage looks great!

You mean DC- ?

I'm going to have to split the welding out of here and into the tools (or my tig welder) thread...

I've been reading lots of stuff and trying different things. Some recommend pure, some ceriated and some say lanthanated for AC. Lanthanated will/should replace thoriated for DC use and no radioactive dust (so I bought some to try...it's a bit pricy though). I have seen Ceriated recommended for AC with a modified point, so I bought some, same for lanthanted (which I haven't tried yet).

I've had trouble getting the thicker tungsten "started" on some of the thin stuff I've been welding. I was (fusion) welding links of chain mail armor for a friend who does medieval battle demonstrations and I couldn't get the tungsten to start during the weld. I welded most of the links with the HF starter running. I went to 1/16 tungsten and the tungsten starts just fine. So I've been experimenting (and I'm a geek and I like to twiddle and play with things, what can I say?) and I'm not sure what I've learned, but my local welding shop takes good care of me and I have been working on welding lots of things with different types of tungsten. No matter what the reason, my welding is improving.

I'm almost sad to admit that my current tungsten collection consists of (I can't buy less than a 10 pack, though I got some with my welder and my welding shop gave me some old samples they had laying around) (prices at my local shop are listed after each one):

10 3/32 Lanthanated tungsten (haven't tried it) ($49 for 10)
14 3/32 2% Thoriated tungsten (good for steel/stainless) ($25 for 10)
11 3/32 pure tungsten (works decent for aluminum, I like ceriated better) ($25 for 10)
10 1/16 2% thoriated tungsten (same as 3/32, but better on thin stuff) ($15 for 10)
10 1/16 Ceriated tungsten (works outstanding on aluminum with a modified point) ($22 for 10)
10 1/16 pure tungsten (same as 3/32, but better on thin stuff) ($15 for 10)
10 .040 pure tungsten (haven't had a chance to try it) ($16 for 10)


And Stan, I insulated the garage so I could get this car done this winter. That was the exact reason that was done. I added some 6500k (daylight) color temp lights that will start in 0 degree weather. So we can actually see now. I put in 5 light fixtures with 2 32 watt bulbs in each. It looks like noon on a summer day in there now (just without the evil glare), you can sure see better than before.



That's what I was hoping to hear. Guess that means that I have things in the places you intended. That's why I moved the main hoop forward a bit and reformed those plates. You were concerned that it was too far back before, so I moved it.




DC+ will ball the end quickly. It puts lots of heat in the tungsten. So I think Alan meant what he said. Instead of balling the tip on AC, just flip to DCEP and "stand on it" until it balls up. That's not a bad idea, I always ball on AC at high current, but that's an elegant solution.

Wow, that’s a lot of Tungsten.

I use red (2% thoriated) for steel.
I have 2 sticks of 1/8, don't use it that much, don't need a lot
I'm on my 2nd box of 3/32
On my 3rd box of 1/16
Just bought a box of 0.040" and the collet / collet body etc. Haven't tried it yet, but it should help the the sheet metal. I think I would have been better off with this for my a-pillar gussets on the windshield frame side.

I was using the 2% thoriated just fooling around with the Aluminum. I used that until I got good enough with the technique. At that point in time I noticed the weld was a dirty darkish color and was getting a lot of erosion of the tungsten, so I bought 2 sticks of 1/8 and 2 sticks of 3/32 pure tungsten and it took care of that issue. I don't weld aluminum that much so I didn't think I needed a full box. Too bad your shop won't sell them a stick at a time. My local shop is good to me also, so I try not to even price check them and just go there. But Mcmastercar does sell this stuff also.


Yeah, I do the same thing but I thought it was DCEN (electrode negative). I should know better than doubt Alan.

Well, more tubing is in place and some welding has been done. The pics are pretty self explanatory.

Also, I purchased a Weldcraft WP17 tig torch with a 25 foot hose and was going to use it today for an aluminum project, but the adaptor I bought doesn't fit my welder (it should, but it's not quite the same as the one I have), so I need to sort out the parts for my new torch.

Anyway, here are the pics.

Definitely some progress from a couple weeks ago when I saw it.

We finish welded the top of the roll cage today. Then we painted the top of the cage and the interior roof in a nice grey color (extra nice since we got a gallon of leftover paint free from some friends).

I also had 30 feet of 1.5" x .065" DOM delivered for a front bumper (when I get to it).

Not too exciting, but here's the pics.

...so when's this thing going to be done?

At the rate we're going, I hope to drive it to my retirement party (and that's going to be 20 years from now)...

At this point, we are ready to place it on the floor plates and start on the rest of the cage. I'm still hoping to be at the F-body event.

Kev, I used 1.5 x .065 on my front bumper as well. The only thing I did differently is that I used HREW instead. It's a tube that should crush/deform/etc, so who cares if it's the strongest it can be?

It's also cheaper when it's not DOM.

Wicks aircraft supply had the 1.5x.065 DOM for $1.53 a foot and I paid about $23 to ship 30 feet of that and some tungsten for my tig (yea, I needed more tungsten, I may have to start the "tungsten exchange" for people who had to buy 10 of something just to try one). They didn't list HREW or I'd have used it. It seemed cheap enough and all my local metal places are open the hours I'm at work, so mail order was the easy way without taking time off. I'm going to borrow Jon A's idea and build a similar structure to support a splitter (that I'm yet to design), brake ducts and my oil cooler. I'm pulling the oil cooler out of the radiator due to cooling issues and adding an external cooler and fan in the bumper assembly. Or that's the plan.

So, how strong is this stuff? I'm trying to build something that will give if I hit it hard enough and not deform the frame horns. Any do's or don'ts?

That's a good price for DOM. I think I paid at least that for my seamed, but that was 2-3 years ago. Mine is just a piece bent to fit the contour of the nose and one kicker per horn and no cross bracing.

1.5 x .065 is strong enough that it will still tweak the frame horn, but it collapses fairly well. I tried it out last May. It's a lot better then the 1.625 x .188 seamed I used last time (1 1/4" IMC conduit). That bent the frame horn and the bumper hardly bent.

I got a look at a NASCAR COT last year at the local liquor store when the Cup race was in town. Their front bumpers are probably 1" or 1.25" x .083 and they used more bracing around it that was smaller tubing yet.

In that case, I might frame the bumper out of this and make the supports that tie to the frame horns out of something smaller so it will bend in a hard shunt. Maybe 1" with a moderately thin wall. Something that still rigid when loaded vertically, but will potentially kink before going through the nose. I have some ideas that shouldn't be too heavy or expensive.

maybe try EMT tubing? its thin, light and bends pretty easily when you want it to, its pretty rigid. and cheap

I don't know if I'd go as small as 1". You've got to think about harder hits too. Fixing a frame horn is better then fixing a radiator, steering box, or the front of the motor.

I hit a guard rail offset to the LF at 20-30MPH and it did this:

Picture linked for size

My tubes are not straight going to the bumper bar, they angle upward from the center of the frame rail. This allows them to bend on impact since the tubing would be strongest in compression. This also puts a decent lever arm to bend the front of the frame rail, but like I said, I'd rather bang the end of the frame rail back into shape instead of putting it on a frame rack because it pushed the whole rail backwards.

Here's a pic later in the year after the damage was fixed. Same fender, nose, and bumper bar with some hammer and dolly work and some aluminum backing plates and rivets on the split nose. Oh, and touch up out of a rattle can.

I have a thought of running some of the 1.5" across the plates bolted to the frame rails and then supporting the bumper with an "X" so it can bend and not spread the horns. Or something along that line.

My PHB relocation kit came from Unbalanced Engineering today. We'll add that to the list of things to weld while we're at it. Looks like a great kit, I'm anxious to see how it all fits.

Thanks for the great service Jason!

I'm starting to find myself in a familiar position. The NFME is 2.5 months away and I still have a list of parts to buy and work to do, which includes installing lots of parts that I've already collected for this project.

Last night the driver's side impact bar (finally) came out as well as more inner drivers door structure that is just ballast. That rest of the list:

Install:

Distributor (and time the engine)
MSD 6AL
MSD coil
Plug wires
Plugs
Starter
Exhaust (bolt it back in place, or mod the Y pipe for pan clearance, depending on time and if I change to a Canton pan)
Battery (Odyssey PC680 and relocate and rewire it)
Switch panel, EFI harness and ECM (and wire entire car/brake lights)
All gauges (build dash first)
PHB relocation bracket
Steering column and wheel (Have to order from Alan)
Kirkey full containment seat (still have to order that from Alan) and fab mount
Window net mounts and net

Fabricate/finish:

Cage
Dash (even something basic)
Front bumper (install external oil cooler and add fan)
Paint interior (when cage is done, before wiring)
Paint exterior (before windshield is installed)
Front and rear bumpers (front bumper for brake ducts, oil cooler and tow hooks, rear for tow hook)
Build a mount for the accusump and shorten the lines

Fix cooling issues (ducting?)

Of that, if I hit crunch time, the essential items are:

Distributor (and time the engine)
MSD 6AL
MSD coil
Plug wires
Starter
Exhaust (bolt it back in place)
Battery (Odyssey PC680 and relocate and rewire it)
Switch panel, EFI harness and ECM (and wire entire car/brake lights)
All gauges (build dash first)


Fabricate/finish:

Cage
Dash (even something basic)
Paint interior (when cage is done, before wiring)

Fix cooling issues (ducting?)

In this case, it's still got a stock seat in it and a stock steering column (until I get back from the event and finish it) and it's still teal with a white hood. I suspect we'll wind up somewhere in between the two lists.

I'd really like to debut the car "finished" (and painted). We have paint, just need to get it sprayed, assuming we have time after completeing the rest of this list.


Guess I need to get busy (again). At least I have longer than 2 weeks this time. I just have to quit going "I have plenty of time, no problem". That's a much bigger list than I was thinking it was.

Yep, I'm running up on that before the start of the season too. If you knock out some of it every night you'll put a good dent in the list.

Don't worry about paint and don't worry about it being "finished". They're never finished and taking it on track with soft paint will only let it chip easier anyway.

It wasn't a super productive weekend. We did get one rear bar for the inverted V (those are tough to fit) and the middle door bar fitted today. My friend Chris (aircraft fabricator) came down for the weekend and while he was here, he tigged the oil cap to the valve covers for me.

Other updates:

The lexan windshield is on order (3/16 Margard coated stock replacement "drop in" lexan from Harwood), most of the electrical bits (breakers, fuse holders and other power distribution stuff) has arrived and the rest is coming. I gathered up an Impact racing helmet and found that their extra large helmet will NOT fit me so I'm going to have to order another Bell. I can't wear Simpson helmets either, so I guess I should have known. My tubing notcher has been shipped and I hope to be breaking it in this coming week.

I spent most of the evening in the garage and got some things accomplished. The upper door bar for the passengers side is fitted, but it hits the door. I have some stuff to trim out of the way, but if that doesn't do it, I'm going to have to straighten the bar slightly and notch another 1/8" off of the end. No big deal, but I won't know the answer until tomorrow. I fitted the main hoop diagonal so that I could fit the harness bar and I tacked all of them in place.

(Yes, I know I have to clean the paint off before final welding. I'm just tacking and fitting tubes to make sure there are no issues, then we'll clean and weld).

Yes, I'm going to recut the front upper bar...

You converting this to RH drive?

Looks good TB. Top bar is in line with haness bar and dash bar. I can tell that you've been studying Alan Blaine photos.

Double nascar bars are the new rule since I didn't get a log book in time to grandfather in an X bar. Alan has taught me very well. I was on the phone with him at 2 am last night for one of our updates/chats. I'm doing the passengers side first for practice. I figure I'd rather goof on the side that I don't sit on. The car should be pretty strong when it's all together (or just heavy).

Didn't know that. Bummer. I guess that only applies if the doors are gutted?

I may be wrong. That might have been due to my original intent to run AV8SS. The CCR says:

But, for NASA, the AI rules supercede the CCR:
AI/AIX 2010
5.13 Door Safety Bars
All vehicles must meet the door safety bar requirements found in the NASA CCR at Section 15.6.12 but
gutting of the door beyond what is solely necessary to fit cage bars is allowed.

So Stan, when you're ready to ditch the windows for AI you can gut the doors. Altho not required, at that time I would consider adding an outer crash structure to your driver side to put a little more room between you and an offending bumper.

CMC, however, is MORE restrictive than the CCR, requiring DRV side impact beam to remain unless door bars curve out to the skin:

CMC 2010
4.12 Door Safety Bars
In addition to meeting all of the CCR specifications the roll cage in a CMC car must meet the following
additional specifications. At a minimum at least two door safety bars must be used on the drivers side, and
one door safety bar on the passenger side. Gutting of the door beyond what is solely necessary to fit cage
bars is allowed. However, removal of the OEM door impact beams is only allowed if door bars extend out
towards the door skin on the driver's side, and on the passenger side if a minimum of two door bars are
used.

I thought that was the case Alan. I skimmed over the 2010 rules so I wasn't sure if missed that or not. I thought I read somewhere that NASCAR style door bars were required on the drivers side if the doors were gutted but I don't see that in the 2010 Nasa CCR. I found something like that in the SCCA GCR:



Maybe I just implied or read on a (this) forum that Nascar bars are required on the drivers side with gutted doors.

I'm sure instructors will appreciate the gesture of the additional door bars. And it isn't too much more weight than a X, each bar in 1.75x0.095 is ~8 lbs and 10 for 0.120".

I was reading the rules to have NASCAR type bars on the drivers side if the door is gutted, and if the passenger side door is gutted then "X" bars are required if no passenger seat, if you have a passenger seat then NASCAR type bars will be used.

Now the NASCAR type bars must go out to the inner panel of the door to put as much safety distance between you and the bars ( I like to call this entry area and with closed doors I need all the room I can muster to get in through the window!) Is there a requirement like NHRA where you are required to exit the car in 15 seconds in full gear? I did not see any requirements in the CCR's....

The NASA requirement is only that the bars extend into the door cavity - that covers NASCAR style, and also an extended X, and maybe others.

Passenger seat being present or not is not in the NASA rules, no impact on the door bar requirements.

Yes, exit time is a rule in the NASA CCR, and should be checked when you get your yearly inspection. I do a lot of exit time testing at the track.

16.2.2 Emergency Exit Time
The vehicle should be setup to allow drivers to exit the car quickly in an emergency.
Drivers should be tested from time to time to ensure that they can meet the specified
time for exiting the car in the event of an emergency. The driver must demonstrate the
ability to exit their car within ten (10) seconds by opening the door (for cars with doors)
or open-top vehicles (e.g. formula / sports racers); and within fifteen (15) seconds by
way of the window opening for sedans. Drivers must be wearing all of their required
driver's gear and be tightly belted into the driver's seat when the clock starts. Anyone
that fails this test may be penalized with penalties ranging from a warning to exclusion
from participation until corrections are made. Note- passing the Emergency Exit Time
test does in no way guarantee anything, as many different situations may present
themselves in a real emergency. The test is an exercise for the driver as well as
functioning to demonstrate the ability to exit the vehicle.

SCCA, quoted above, is more restrictive regarding the SIB and stuff, so important to target a specific class and review those rules - some will trump the general rules.

IMO, an exposed SIB is a liability

The inverted V is fitted. The 3 bars for the drivers door bars are fitted. The holes are cut through the firewall and the strut tower bars are ready to be notched to fit the dash bar. I'm sure there's more.

There was also a slight bucket fire today when some grinding sparks found that there were still some brake clean vapors in my bucket. I was grinding away and "WHOOMPH". My garage door opener didn't want to open the door (picked a fine time for that). I carried it outside and decided that it was starting to burn pretty good. Since it was full of chemicals and burning fumes, I figured the fire extinguisher was the fastest way to fix the issue (and probably safer than water, which I didn't have handy). So, remember kids, watch what you're grinding on/near and keep those extinguishers fresh and easily accessable. I'm headed out to locate a replacement in a minute (I have a few more in the shop, but I'll go ahead and replace this one now too).

Tomorrow we weld! (at least a good portion of it).

my dad was working on a motorcycle today in the shop while I was finishing my exhaust. I was making my last few cuts with the metabo when dad spilled gas all over the floor when he pulled the fuel tank off the bike. I stopped and waited for the fumes to clear

That's odd. I was working on my bike today and spilled some gas on the ground. I cleaned it up but apperently not well enough because when I started making sparks in the wheel well of the camaro, the floor started on fire. Being the pyro I am, I just watched it burn out since it was just a small spot about the size of my fist on the concrete.

Last week we worked on the floor plates and finished them last weekend. Then last night we did some finish welding on the doors, trimmed up the strut tower bars and the Kirkey race seat came in today (Thanks Alan!!!). We're getting there. One more good night and I think we'll have it wrapped (welded) up, not counting fabbing the seat mount and some of the additional bars. I'm going to add the reinforcements between the cage and body, but I may not get it done for the NFME. That might get started when I return home.

Anyway, here's progress...

And Stan... "Ready or not, here I come!!!"

SHIT!

You better get moving Hoss, he's going to be done before you! LOL

umm yeah. I need help! TB has good help, I don't! Ok, Oliver (my shop dog) was in the shop with me on Monday, but that don't count.

Mollie helped me fit the door bars. Racerdad916 and I have pretty much done the rest. Chris (aircraft fabricator friend) helped with some tube notching and welded my oil cap bung on the valve covers. Rhit RS has been over to assist with a bit of the work as well. I don't have constant help, but I have some really spectacular help when we they have the time!!!

Thanks to all of them!!!

Stan,

I told you I'd have to come help once I was done...