Well, we've managed to accomplish a lot, but we have a lot to do. Many of the things on the list are critical (and it's still not running). few I'd do over and some things I'll change. The breaker panel in the back... I'm not real happy with it. The Accusump might be relocated too. I tigged up a set of dash brackets, then a bolt stripped out of one and I'm still trying to sort out a few

You are moving along at a pretty good pace, Keep at bud. Its a better pace than i do, I think it has to do with how much beer i drink!

I have just over a week to put my motor back in, dyno, alignment, radio, and a few odds/ ends. The dyno/alignment are a day each, with no sleep(night shift) +2hrs a day for the rest. It would have been worse if i did that ls2 5.3L i have sitting at the motor shop.

The car is looking great by the way!

We have been living in the garage all week. Sadly, we had to pull the plug and didn't get the car done. My girlfriend has been spectacularly tolerant and she is an amazing goddess for putting up with this. However, I promised that it would run this weekend or I was "hers" for a few days/weeks, etc. So progress is going to be slow for a bit and hoestly, I'm about sick of being covered in metal chips and grease/dirt. I'll post the recent progress when I get pics.

More to come!

I agree with John. 4-5 hours of sleep has been the norm lately. Keep plugging along and you'll get it done. I always find some way to do it even if I end up pulling all nighters.

Leaving for Putnam Park tomorrow after work. Hoping to bring home some hardware and find the tenth of a second I missed the track record by last time.

Ok, here's the pics of where I left it. I just got home from NFME (they only ran the road course today, so we didn't stay for tomorrow, I'll post about all that in another thread...hint: we took a Mustang with us!).

It's all wiring and fitting the lexan. Honestly, I was going to just have a windshield put back in the car and stuff the lexan in a closet until I feel like dealing with it. I may still do just that. I'm not sure I feel like dealing with the care and feeding of lexan until I get to sanctioned events. I did go with a remote master switch (solenoid) and a solenoid for the alternator disconnect as well (paving the way for a 1 wire alternator later) as well as a couple breakers and a remote starter solenoid (so my large starter lead isn't hot all the time). I know you guys will give me crap for the panel and I don't love it (but I was running out of time). It's probably one of the safest (electrically) cars you'll find on grid, but it looks unconventional. Sue me.

The dash panel is wired up and the gauges all power up (speedo runs a self test, etc) and the light switch works for the dash lights (just in case). I am going to drop it in the car and run sensors to it in the very near future. Any progress is good progress.

Agreed. Sorry it's taken so long to post comments. It's taken this long to get all of the metal chips and grease/dirt off.

Thanks for including me in the 3 1/2 days on the end of the thrash to get tragically teal on the track. You don't owe me anything. Your calm advice the other day more than paid the tab not to mention I really enjoyed myself. Sorry we didn't make the deadline though. Would have been fun chasing you instead of James G. He was driving the wheels off that car though. You're so close to finishing. Only a day or 2 worth of work left. Just a little wiring, windshield, distributor, passenger seat and belts. If you need another deadline... pick one from here: https://www.pdadrivingschool.com/registration.php I'm going to try to make Monticello and a day or 2 @ Pocono.

Thanks for the help with the mustang at NFME. And we should have entered it in the car show. I also owe a thank you to Jonathan and Shanta for the ride, instruction and help with the tire. Only disappointment with the event was the reduced road course track time. Thought they'd keep with the 2 days planned when the didn't drop the cost but went to a 2 day event. NFME needs to reach out to new camaro owners to increase attendance.

And yeah, I'm going to give you crap. The breaker panel and accusump are fine. The panel is overkill safe, simple and organized. Maybe it's different and adds 1/3rd lb but it's where it needs to be. The only place that you have left to mount the accusump is under the hood which presents it's own problems. If you're worried it'll pop, put a shield over it. Your car is the safest camaro on the planet. Just get it on the track.

Sooooo, it's only been....uh...a while since I last updated this thread. I've been pretty torn on what to do with this car (no secret there). But the market sucks and it's still taking up most of my garage, so I guess we have to finish it. And finish it we will...

A few weeks ago I pulled the dash panel apart (removed all the wiring and gauges) and cut a notch to allow it to drop over the steering column to lower it for better visibility (and reinstalled all the wiring and gauges). Then I cut out the dash brackets and ground off the mounts, lowered them and welded them back to the cross bar.

In the last few days, we've put power and ground on the dash panel, put power and ground on the ECM, grounded the fuel pump and hooked it to the output of the fuel pump relay from the ecm, hooked up the battery and did a power test of the breakers, solenoids and switches, wired up the distributor and the MSD...ah, the MSD...I'll get to that. We grounded the cooling fan up front, grounded the engine block to the roll cage tab that I tig welded to the strut tower bars, hooked up the front master switch and starter button, installed the mechanical water temp gauge into the engine and hooked up the oil pressure gauge, etc.

Last night, we did a full power test on everything and cranked it... It didn't light and we realized why. There's no power source to the red wire on the MSD. I thought (incorrectly) that it came from the distributor, but the power needs to feed the coil (now the MSD) and the distributor. So, I need to add a switched hot lead. No sweat...

Then I realized that I likely need a tach input lead to the ECM, but I don't remember seeing it in the wiring harness (oddly enough). So, I may have to pull the ECM wiring diagram, find the lead and add it. That should get us close enough to start. Also, the inlet air temp sensor wiring harness is too short, so I'll be extending that so it reaches the intake. I have lots of practice making leads longer on this harness, maybe a bit more than I wanted, but it's nothing we can't handle.

Anyway, we should have it running the next time we get to the garage (92voodoo, Racerdad and I).

It's a white wire, IIRC, coming from the back of the dizzy. Double check your wiring diagram though.

Right...lol. I had that part worked out. It's one of the 4 wires on the coil (+12v and tach signal on one connector, coil hot to the distributor to feed the module and the ground pulse trigger on the other). Except my blaster coil is two wire, and none of the harness wires were supplied with the techrods kit for the power and tach pickup for the coil (if I was using a stock or stock replacement one, which I'm not). It's just MIA. I'll pull the pinouts for the ecm, hope there's a wire there and feed it a tach signal. This harness has been an adventure, everything that's not too short is just missing. But I have wire, solder and heat shrink tubing...

Hey, hey, that's great! Have a beer on me!

Thanks Alan, I just might do that.

Besides, I'm part of a group that just got surplused at work and it will be easier to move if it's running (and I wind up having to move it, sell it, stuff it in storage or turn it into some kind of a twisted daily driver). Anybody out there need any avionics technician/telecommunications guys?

Maybe I'm not so crazy for fighting with the stock harness...

I don't know that I'd go that far...I just finished putting my harness back to stock from the megasquirt setup that I was running...there are close to 3 times as many wires as "necessary" for the stock ECM. One example...the fuel pump circuit is supplied power from the battery via a fuse directly from the battery, it goes to the relay on the drivers side engine compartment, runs across the firewall and passes through with the ECM wires in the passengers kick panel. Then it runs across the car on the inside to run down the drivers side wire channel. Its no wonder I had a severe voltage drop...it was close to 40ft of thin wire that was 20+ years old.

Trackbird, good to see you back on your project!! For me, mine went back to stock and is on the chopping block...

Maybe. This one has required me to extend and heat shrink (with the shrink tubing with the sealer/glue in it) several wires in the harness. It's been really frustrating, but it's in better shape than my stock harness (new connectors on the new harness, most of my old ones were cracked or dry rotted and I'd replaced a bunch of them already). But I wish this had been a better fit to the engine.



Yea, this car is on the list with buying a house as two of my worst financial decisions. But since it's here, I'm going to try to finish it. It may be sold after I'm done, traded for something else, autocrossed, run at the occasional track day or I'll toss a cover over it and let it sit. Either way, I've got to at least finish it. So we'll keep plugging away and then on to the next adventure.

haha, I found the same thing and simplified that circuit, but there are other examples like that where GM decided to just run wires in circles around the car but that is the best example. In TB's case he paid $ for a harness that he has to lengthen wires with. With the stock harness I paid nothing but had to trim out a lot of stuff. I hate to guess how many hours I have in that harness.. 40-80?

I used the matching colored wires from the stock harness to extend the new harness and have the color codes match all the way through.

I decided that my factory harness was too far gone to adapt, so I bought a generic harness for my megasquirt setup. I spent 20-30 hours to build it and integrate into the factory in-car harness. And then I decided to go back to stock...so I then spent another 10-15 hours repairing the factory harness. And I have to repair the same things on my Turbo TA too...I must be a glutton for punishment.

It runs. After much checking, we removed vats and it lit and runs...

Woohoo!!!!!!! Beer thirty!

I thought that chip had the VATS removed. We added the +12v lead to the MSD and the distributor and had fire, but no fuel. We traced out most of the wiring, checked the pins on the ecm to make sure the harness was assembled correctly and then (finally) Racerdad916 (Billy) said "why don't you hook up the check engine light and see what it might say, that way we know if the ECM is dead or not". I had considered that we should have it hooked up, but "bah, what's it going to tell us since the ECM is on switched power for both leads" and I didn't do it. 92BVoodoo (Bill....this gets confusing in the garage) and I hooked it up and tried to start it, then just pulled the fuse for the "switched hot", shorted the pins and "poof"...code 46...which is VATS "or trouble at ignition key switch" (I've had the vats wires break there on a car a couple times before as well). I dug out my prom burner and software (which I've never used), read a few help files, found bit B2 for VATS turned on, killed it and burned a prom. Wandered out to the garage, hit the button and it started right up...figures...

Anyway, that takes care of that part.

I called today to see if they had taken it around the block, but the freezing rain and a timing issue put the Kabosh on the road test. I can't wait to flog (wait, did I say that outloud?)um, test drive it

Well, it is seriously looking like this car might cost me a second "divorce"....

Anyway, we got the timing sorted out once we got it running again. Bill noticed the fuel pressure gauge showing 5 psi on the fuel rail while we were trying to start it (it suddenly quit running and timing had been "everywhere"). "Think we ran it out of gas?"...."I guess it's possible"...lol (I tried to jumper the fuel pump with a battery box at one point last year and got on the fuel sender leads, so my sending unit might be a bit suspect now, but the gauge is hooked up and showing empty right now). We picked up the can, tossed 2 gallons in it and poof, it fired right up. We set the timing and connected the timing connector and still had timing at TDC (or does the base timing get set at 8 deg with the ECM? I figured I'd error on the side of being retarded, like that's a surprise to anyone here....lol). We recycled the ignition and it all seems to be working right. We see 40+ degrees at idle and it drops under load and appears to generally be working correctly (though we did have to switch from Racerdads nice MAC timing light to a POS actron to get numbers we believed...we'll have to investigate that later).

Anyway, we now have the following hooked up, mounted and functioning:

Fuel gauge (with suspect sending unit)
Tach
MSD Shift light
2 Autometer Pro lights (low oil pressure and low water pressure warnings)
Oil Temp gauge (with a sender on the inlet to the cooler, we'll be adding one after the cooler to the other side of the switch).
Oil pressure gauge (mechanical)
Water temp gauge (mechanical)
Voltmeter
Dash lights
Wide band O2 (and hooked to the ECM under the hood using an old O2 connector to allow us to swap to a standard O2 at the track)
The new high pressure (the extra long) accusump is installed and has been leak checked

We still have to hook up:

Speedometer
Oil temp gauge (a second gauge with a switch for trans and rear end and add the senders to each)

Tie up the wiring, cover the extra holes in the firewall and put a windshield in it.

I'll have to post some pictures when I get a chance to take them...

Great to hear its running again!!

Wiring isn't done and it's not tied up yet, but here's a few current pics.

We now have brake lights. The speedometer works (but needs calibrated...which I can do as soon as the windsheld goes in and the insurance takes effect so I can drive it for a quick spin). All the patch panels for the firewall and various other holes are cut and ready to install and there is a working cigarette lighter (power port) in the dash. I wanted to make sure I could run the laptop and anything else I might need, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to have a power port.

I think I'm going to try to drag it out to the OVR-SCCA autocross on April 2nd and the test and tune on the 9th (if nothing breaks).

Last week 92 Voodoo (Bill) cut out all of the aluminum patch panels for the firewall and door openings, etc. This weekend he installed them (a job he billed as "the worst project ever"...thanks Bill!!!). So we are now slightly more fire resistant. I drained the fluid and installed a temp sending unit in the drain plug of the T56 to monitor transmission temps. I also respliced the knock sensor line to allow the thermotec heat protective sleeve to fit over it (it was melting beyond the original sleeve that I had installed, so I covered the rest of it). The passengers side seat belt anchors are installed now and ready for the belts. Most of the wiring is wrapped in split loom, harnessed, wrapped up, tied down, etc. It's not quite finished, but Bill did a great job tying up the wiring. The weather stripping has been placed around the window opening and the lexan is trimmed to a size that should fit...as soon as I figure out the best mounting method.

There's an event in two weeks and I "think" we should have the car there for a shake down run. Just wrapping up the loose ends.

Then we get to pull the engine and trans from Bill's Mustang (the one we took to NFME last year) and turn it into something evil...

Kevin, I'm glad you are still working on this project! It sounds like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks Chad. I'm about out of time, interest and money, but that's never stopped me before...lol

Any guesses what it weighs?

3250?

Way too high.

I'm guessing below 3k, probably around 2900-2950 assuming he has everything in it.

We ran it across the scales at the truck stop last night and sitting on a 1700 lb trailer, we had a total weight of 4780. Look like about 3080 to me. It had a small battery jump box in the back of the car but no windshield in it (the box is probably lighter than the glass will be). There was no passenger seat in it either. It had about 14 gallons of fuel in it.

I'm starting to think I need to reweigh the car. I was at the shop with Mitch and Glenn and there is "nothing" left in Glenn's new CMC car (compared to mine) and if I pull my fuel, we're at almost the same weight. That can't be possible, can it? Is there that much weight difference between a 3rd and 4th gen? Glenn is at 2950 with 1/4 tank. I'm at 3080 with about 116 lbs of fuel on board. I still can/need to gut the front and rear bumpers, cut out two brackets in the rear, aluminum flywheel and lighter sway bars. I think I can remove at least 100 if not close to 170 more lbs from my car if I decide to (and then there's lexan for the hatch if I decided to try it). Maybe my weight is off?

Don't weigh the car on a trailer, it's just a guess at that point. However, your car is 1.75 x .120 throughout, IIRC. That is .5lb/ft of tube vs. 1.75 x .095, extra brace tubes, NASCAR bars on both sides, Accusump, cast AL valve covers are usually heavier then stock stamped steel, etc.

It is amazing the differences in weight of components when you really start scaling all your parts. Without ballast, without driver, and with 5 gals of fuel my car would be ~2665lbs.

That's with a stock rear bumper, no lexan, and the only fiberglass is the hood.

16ozs in a pound and the way to cut weight is to get obsessed about it.

I've been living to that motto for the past 4 years and I'll be getting my car corner weighted for the first time here soon hopefully. I can't wait to see that number.

My SWAG is the 3rd gen chassis is about 100# lighter than a 4th gen, at the same level of prep. The extra steel in your cage will make up for about 1/2 of that compared to a typical CMC cage. Other little things add up. It takes a concerted effort to remove weight, or keep it off during a build.

It's useful to get an accurate weigh to judge lightening efforts. Swagging fuel load introduces a huge margin of error when you're trimming ounces off - I suggest topping the tank off, or pumping it dry, before scaling it.

We ran the tank dry, added almost 5 gallons (and let it idle for a bit), added virtually 5 more and then I threw a 4.2 gallon can in it. So it's got to be 13-14 gallons in it now (but it's not full). The trailer was weighed a few weeks ago so it could be titled and we have a very close (exact?) weight on it (placed on the scales and disconnected from the truck, same way we weighed it with the car on it). I wanted a rough idea where the car would be and now I have some guidance. Once I get it back out of storage and get glass in it, I'll tag it and drive it to the scales (or I'll borrow scales and corner weight it). So I won't say this is an exact weight, but it should be a pretty good guide to where I currently stand.

Love the build and really like how you painted the dash. Giving me some ideas as I built a custom dash insert in my camaro also. Keep up the good work!!

Credit for the dash goes to my neighbor (I think he's hot rod and custom art on here). He offered to take an airbrush to it, so I handed it to him and told him to have fun.

It's back in the garage. The Mustang is finished (needs tuned, but otherwise done) and has been relocated to its home and the (now super dusty) Camaro has been retrieved from the dark corner of a storage unit. I need to mount a rear view mirror, tie up a few more wires and do something about a windshield. I'm almost ready to just put the lexan in it, but I really don't want to deal with lexan right now (scratching and other care issues).

Sounds like fun Kevin! I haven't read all 23 pages but what engine are you using?

It's an engine I built years ago for my '89 Formula (but never fired before selling the car and the engine...the engine went to a friend for this car and I bought it back...lol). It's a splayed main cap, .020 over (353 cu in), 1 piece rear main seal block. ZZ3 forged crank, Lunati street race rods, billet timing set, comp roller cam (220/230 .510/.510), ZZ3 heads with under cut Manley valves, Holley stealth ram intake, torque plate honed, deck plugs, 0 decked, balanced, etc, etc, etc.

It's likely 370-380 hp at the flywheel and should be pretty close to right for AI...give or take...

It's now a new to ME 1992 Z28.

Time to start stripping weight but remembering is destined to be a CMC car...

Congrats. Only took you since 2005 to wise up.

Thanks TJ! Glad it went to a good home. Now put it on the podium for me!!!

Any idea how much fuel is in this thing? I came home today to find it pissing fuel from the lines. I cracked the cap loose and that stopped it, but it made me think.

Stupid warm days causing thermal expansion. It had nothing to do with me beating on it and running an impact...

I tried to drain the tank and got about 7 gallons. I "thought" there was 12-14 gallons in it.

You need to make a build thread for the rest of the CMC guys who want to build a 3rd gen...

Kevin, thanks. I'll have to try to hot wire the fuel pump.

Todd: I can try, but I'm not the greatest at documentation and it's already had a lot of work done. I'll see what I can do.